Is this true that Jesus drank alcoholic wine as the lyrics, “Cause I heard Jesus, He drank wine”? Some question this. What kind of wine did Jesus drink? Did Jesus drink intoxicating amounts of wine?
The Definition of Biblical Wine
The word “wine” in the Bible is not always alcoholic or equivalent to modern wine. The Bible uses one Greek word for “wine” and “grape juice” which could mean alcoholic wine of varying amounts or non-alcoholic grape juice (1 Tim 3:8; Titus 2:3). The Hebrew word for “wine” is yayin and the Greek is oinos (MT; LXX). Biblical “wine” is grape juice that may or may not have fermented. However, the wine of today has considerably more alcohol than wine in the first century because of modified yeast. The Bible includes a number of examples of unfermented “wine”:
- “Wine” is the blood of the grape (Gen 49:11–12, Heb. yayin, Gr. oinos LXX; Deut 32:14, Heb. chemer; Gr. oinos LXX).
- The vineyard is the place of “red wine” (Isa 27:2, Heb. chemer).
- “Wine” refers to the grape juice from the grapes of the field (Deut 11:14; 2 Chr 31:5, Heb. tirosh; Gr. oinos LXX; Jer 40:10, 12, Heb. yayin; Gr. oinos LXX).
- Scripture describes “wine” that is in the grape (Isa 65:8, Heb. tirosh).
- The grape juice of the wine-press is “wine” (Prov 3:10, Heb. tirosh; Gr. oinos LXX; Isa 16:10; Jer 48:33, Heb. yayin; Gr. oinos LXX).
These references reveal that the word “wine” in Hebrew and Greek often refers to non-alcoholic grape juice in the Bible. Linguistics requires that one begin with the generic meaning and then determine other specific meanings of a word by its context and, or use.
In reading the Old Testament, Bible translations represent six different Hebrew words “wine” for which one word excludes alcohol. This word is asis meaning “sweet grape juice” or “new grape juice.” The word has no reference to alcohol, yet translators have interpreted it as “wine” to avoid interpreting the contexts with nuances and ambiguity. Therefore, the word “wine” does not necessarily mean alcoholic wine in the Bible.
The Bible does not appear to contain one positive statement about intoxicating wine or any such drink. The Bible does include positive words about generic “wine” that is grape juice (Gen 14:18; Num 15:5–10; Deut 14:26; Ps 104:15; Isa 55:1; Amos 9:14; John 2:1–11; 1 Tim 5:23). References to “strong drink” or “liquor” in the Bible refer to cider in biblical translations of sikera, σικερα, according to Danker and Gingrich’s Greek lexicon (cf. Deut 14:26; Luke 1:15; Wycliffe’s Bible).
Ancient Wine and Today’s Wine
In the Bible, alcoholic wine is not like wine today. The sugar of grape juice can only ferment to 3 or 4% alcohol with wild yeast — airborne yeast. For grape juice to exceed 4% alcohol, then the winemaker must add yeast. The yeast added to ancient wines produced between 4–11% alcohol. Alcohol kills these yeast cells and prevents levels of alcohol from exceeding ~10%. Today, wines average 12–20% alcohol due to modern fermentation by adding sulfur dioxide and Saccharomyces (a cultured GMO yeast) to a late harvest of ripened grapes with higher fructose (Winemaker Magazine, Wines & Vines, UC Davis, International Biblical Encyclopedia, “Alcohol in the Church,” Bible Wine). Today’s wine is not like biblical wine in regards to alcoholic content. Due to the later invention of distilling, strong drinks like liquor exceed 20% alcohol for which today’s wine is coming close to matching.
When reading the word “wine” in the Bible, the word may simply refer to grape juice or intoxicating wine not exceeding ~10% alcohol. The reader must interpret the word “wine” within its context to determine if it is alcoholic. However, biblical wine is certainly not like wine today.
Because of the use of the word “wine” in English Bibles, many presume that Jesus drank alcoholic wine. Jesus did not drink modern wine. The methods for fermenting highly-alcoholic wine had not yet been invented. Jesus’s opponents did accuse Him of being a “wine-drinker” from the Greek oinopoteis, because He came freely eating and also drinking grape juice unlike John the Baptist who restricted his eating and drinking (Matt 11:18–19; Luke 7:33–34). These antagonists appear to accuse Jesus of drinking alcoholic wine. However, when the reader considers the wedding that Jesus attended in Cana and Jesus’s institution of the Lord’s Supper, then His drinking of wine is not what many have presumed.
Water to Wine
What about Jesus turning water into wine? Upon reading John 2:1–11 in most English translations, many took the text as stating that Jesus turned water into intoxicating wine at the wedding in Cana, a small town in Galilee (John 2). These scriptures infer that the wedding guests “have well drunk” a large amount of oinos wine. The Greek word translated as “well drunk” is methuo meaning literally to fill or make full, and many times the word means “drunk” depending on the context. Translators correctly render methuo as “drunk” in contexts referring to drunkenness by drinking intoxicating wine or filling oneself with wine (Gingrich and Danker’s lexicon). John’s reference to the guests having “drunk well” and becoming full also implies that the wedding feast was relatively short especially if one takes this word in John 2:10 to mean that the guests were “drunk.”
In this case, Jesus either made more alcoholic wine for those who were drunk or He made more grape juice for those who would have their fill. Which is plausible: that Jesus created intoxicating wine for those who were drunk or that He made fresh “new wine,” grape juice, for those who had drunk well of the previous supply? If one interprets this passage as Jesus making alcoholic wine, then Jesus created more intoxicating wine for those who were already drunk or filled. If one perceives that the wedding guests were simply full of non-alcoholic wine, then Jesus made “new wine” with minimal to no alcohol.
Furthermore, “good wine” was limited late in winter and just before Passover when the wine had aged throughout the year (John 2:13). Jesus providing more aged and intoxicating wine would not have been an apparent miraculous sign. Jesus provided them with “good wine.” Was it “good wine” as though received from the grape press? The making of new wine would magnify Jesus’s sign because this was just before the Passover and before the first harvest of grapes. Therefore, Jesus’s production of fresh grape juice would have been an evident miraculous wonder of God.
The master of the feast depicted the situation that which the guests had filled themselves with wine from the meaning of “filled” of the Greek word methuo in John 2:9–10. A wedding feast may last a day and sometimes more (Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah). John depicted that many would have drunk well of the wine so the guests were full as implied by the Greek word methuo. Being filled with wine tells that this drinking of the wedding feast occurred in a short amount of time within a few hours. The guests would immediately drink the wine that Jesus made. If Jesus made alcoholic wine, Jesus would have made more intoxicating wine amounting to between 120 to 180 gallons of additional alcoholic wine. What would happen if three hundred guests “have well drunk” and then drank an additional 150 gallons of alcoholic wine? Jesus would have given each guest an additional 64 ounces of alcoholic wine. The average person would have drunk another 6–12 drinks of alcoholic wine if there were 300 guests. However, the abundance was part of the miracle like the 12 baskets of bread left over from feeding the 5,000. Maybe the wine was not meant to be consumed immediately.
Even considering a wedding party of a thousand guests who have well drunk, each person would have consumed about 19 ounces of wine. Presuming that this wine contained 10% alcohol because the scenario includes fermented wine and the guests drank it all in one day, Jesus would have aided a thousand people in binge drinking having intoxicated the guests with three additional drinks who were already intoxicated as indicated by the Greek methuo for having “well drunk.” For each guest to have had simply two more drinks, then the wedding would have had at least 1,600 attendees. Despite the number in attendance, Jesus would have presumably contributed a considerable amount of alcohol to those who were already filled with wine. For those proposing that Jesus made highly intoxicating wine like today’s wine, 16–24 ounces would intoxicate anyone at an alcoholic level of 12–15% according to the CDC. Either today’s intoxicating wine or first-century fermented wine appears to be an absurdity at this wedding.
To assume that Jesus made alcoholic wine is to assume that after everyone had drunk all the other wine, then Jesus made more intoxicating wine for all of those who had their fill. The scenario of Jesus producing alcoholic wine appears implausible and uncharacteristic of biblical commands to refrain from drunkenness. If Jesus did make a great amount of fermented wine, He would have aided the sin of drunkenness and excessive drinking and would have participated in a drinking party, which are all condemned by His disciple and apostle Peter in the Scriptures (1 Pet 4:3).
Wine and the Lord’s Supper
Did Jesus use alcoholic wine in the Lord’s Supper? What kind of wine would someone drink at a feast where yeast was thrown out? Many have assumed that Jesus drank wine because many churches have made alcoholic wine a part of the “Eucharist,” the Lord’s Supper. Did Jesus use highly alcoholic wine when He instituted the Lord’s Supper? First, the Scriptures never use the word “wine” in any of the four accounts of Jesus instituting the Lord’s Supper. Jesus mentioned the specific content of the cup containing “the fruit of the grapevine.” The passages about the Lord’s Supper make no reference to alcoholic wine. The Greek word for “wine” is never used in Scripture to describe any part of the Lord’s Supper.
Jesus instituted the Lord’s Supper during the Passover Feast. What kind of wine did the Jews use during Passover? Jesus used unleavened bread in the Passover because this is also the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Israel threw out all leaven by God’s command including the leavened bread (Exod 13:6–7). The throwing out of the yeast implies that Israel removed the grape juice fermented by the leavening of yeast. Fermented wine was not likely a part of the Passover taught by Moses. Furthermore, Jesus referred to the contents of the cup as “fruit of the grapevine” in the Lord’s Supper indicating minimal to no fermentation even from wild yeast. The intent of the cup of the Lord was not to intoxicate.
What about those who got drunk by drinking the Lord’s Supper? Getting drunk by bringing intoxicating wine to the Lord’s Supper does not mean that Jesus gave the disciples alcoholic wine in the Lord’s Supper. First Corinthians 11:21–22 depicts, “Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk [methuo]” (ESV). This passage also uses the Greek word methuo, which can mean drunk or filled (cf. John 2:10). Some ate the Lord’s Supper as a meal so that they were filled and those who drank were also filled not necessarily drunk. However, Paul could have been correcting such intoxication as well. If one assumes that these Christians became drunk in the assembly using the grape juice for the Lord’s Supper, then they must also presume that those drinking brought enough intoxicating wine to get drunk and intended to use such for the Lord’s Supper. The use of alcoholic wine implies that some of these Christians brought intoxicating wine for the church to drink together for the Lord’s Supper. They would also have decided to drink and get drunk from that wine in assembly rather than wait for others. Whether the wine was alcoholic or not, 1 Corinthians 11 neither condones alcoholic wine for the Lord’s Supper nor suggests that Jesus used alcoholic wine for His disciples to commune with Christ in remembrance of His sacrificial blood.
Warnings about Wine
Jesus warned against drunkenness and filling oneself with intoxicating drinks that trap people in this life (Luke 21:34). The Bible warns those who do drink, linger, and look at the cup (Prov 23:29–35; Rom 14:17–22). Christians can and should warn others about alcohol.
The apostle Paul revealed that those who continue in drunkenness will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9–11; Gal 5:19–21). The Greek word translated “drunkenness” literally means “filling oneself” in Scripture (Eph 5:18–19; cf. Rom 13:13). Christ’s Spirit in Galatians 5:19–21 teaches that such “drunkenness” is a “work of the flesh” and “those who are doing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5 also condemned “wild parties” or “revelries” where any of the lists of sins like drunkenness would constitute a party as sinful and carnal. Paul also revealed in 1 Corinthians 6:10 that drunkards “will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Drunkenness and filling one’s body with intoxicants is a sin.
Filling oneself with alcohol is evil and compromises the sobriety of the Christian conscience and one’s heart (cf. Rom 2:14–15; 1 John 3:19–21). Christ’s words and those of His apostles and prophets urge all to avoid drunkenness, and so Christians should do likewise and warn others of drunkenness. Peter warned, “For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Nations want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness [lit. excessive drinking], orgies, drinking parties [lit. drinkings], and lawless idolatry” (1 Pet 4:3). The word for “drunkenness” in 1 Peter 4:3 is not the usual word for drunkenness, but the Greek word is oinophlugia made of two words oinos meaning “wine” and phlugia is “to do something in excess.” Excessive drinking is a sin. Furthermore, “drinking parties” is translated from the Greek word potos, which literally denotes occasions that people gather for the purpose of drinking.
The apostle Paul commanded Christians to remain sober and make no provision to become drunk on any level (1 Thess 5:8). Christ had no part with drunkenness and drinking parties, so His followers must not. According to Romans 14, Christians should not condemn their brother over a drink; although, every Christian has the scriptural example and the foresight to warn against its use and against looking at the cup (Prov 23:29–35; Rom 14:17–22). Solomon warned by the wisdom of God.
Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things. (Prov 23:31–33)
Therefore, “Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Prov 20:1). The assertions of positive statements about drinking alcohol in the Bible are private interpretations.
Conclusion
The wine that Jesus drank was not intoxicating. Alcoholic wine is not characteristic of Jesus or any godly behavior in the Bible. Jesus neither encouraged drunkenness nor drank intoxicating wine. No one can rightly reference Jesus to justify excessive drinking, drunkenness, and drinking events. The Bible neither promotes nor supports the drinking of intoxicants. God’s grace compels Christians no longer to continue in any excessive drinking of alcohol because they have been forgiven.
Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13:13–14)
Bibliography
- Jeff Chorniak. “Wild Yeast: The Pros and Cons of Spontaneous Fermentation.” Winemakers Magazine. 2005. <http://winemakermag.com/758-wild-yeast-the-pros-and-cons-of-spontaneous-fermentation>.
- Jean L. Jacobson. “Upsides of Wild Fermentation.” Wine & Vines, 2012. <http://www.winesandvines.com/template.cfm?section=features&content=98687>.
- “Marking Red Table Wine.” University of California Davis, 2016. <http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/pdf/HWM3.pdf>.
- James Orr, M.A., D.D. “Wine; Wine Press.” International Bible Encyclopedia, 1915. <http://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/isb/view.cgi?n=9116>.
- “Alcohol in the Church.” 2016. <http://www.abidingplace.org/features/alcohol-in-the-church.html>.
- Kyle Pope. “Bible Wine.” Olsen Park church of Christ, 2013. <http://www.olsenpark.com/Sermons13/BibleWine.html>.
- Alfred Edersheim. The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah. Christian Classics Ethereal Library, 1883. <https://www.ccel.org/ccel/edersheim/lifetimes>.
Related posts:
“Reconsider the Biblical Concept of Drunkenness“
The Breath of God 
Interesting reading here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_in_the_Bible
There is a very good chart which gives the 10 Hebrew words and 5 Greek words commonly referring alcoholic beverages in the Bible, including all those cited above. Please note the long list of academic and theological references.
Obviously the wine in the Biblical days was strong enough to get one drunk. Otherwise these verses would not exist.
Genesis 9:21
And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
Ephesians 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Scott, while I’ll reserve any commentary on the doctrinal issues in your article, I will address several technical details which may prompt you to re-examine, or at least re-state, your position.
I am a professional, licensed distiller by trade. I make high proof alcoholic beverages such as whisky, rum, vodka and so on. My moral compass directs me to strongly encourage temperance and moderation in all things which are potentially injurious to the body and mind.
You say “The sugar of grape juice can only ferment to 3% alcohol. For grape juice to exceed 3% alcohol, then yeast must be added.”
I’m not sure where your 3% figure came from, but your statement is not factual. In order for ANY fermentation to take place, yeast must be present. Which it is, naturally. More on this below. Naturally fermented juices without added yeast can easily exceed 10%.
You comment on the “distilled wine” of the biblical era, saying “Jesus never drunk distilled wine. Distilling wine has not yet been invented” and “due to distilling, strong drinks like liquor exceed 20% alcohol”.
You seem to be confusing the term “fermented” with “distilled”.
Wine is not a distilled product, it is merely fermented fruit juice, regardless of the alcoholic strength. Fermentation is a natural process and begins to occur naturally in unpreserved, unrefrigerated fruit juice immediately upon being pressed from the fruit, when the juice comes in contact with the natural yeasts present on the skin of the fruit. If the yeast is quickly killed by boiling the juice, any yeasts in the air—which are literally everywhere—will contaminate the juice and begin the process all over. In the times we’re discussing, there was no knowledge of sterilization or the need for it.
We know that the ancients kept wine in all manner and size of containers, fron a small amphora the size of a modern wine bottle, all the way up to huge earthen jars holding hundreds of gallons. We know that it was stored for long periods of time and that wine was traded in international commerce on sea voyages that lasted many months. Any juice stored in such a way would become wine—as we know it—within a matter of days or weeks, becoming stronger as time passed. Primitive yeasts produced similar results to todays strains, although it’s rare for yeast to be able to tolerate much more than 20% abv before dying off.
Distilling, on the other hand, is a mechanical process where an already fermented liquid (whether beer or wine) is heated in a closed pot, driving off the easily-evaporated alcohol vapors and natural flavors of the materials, and leaving behind much of the water and all of the solids. When the vapor is re-condensed into liquid, you have your distilled spirit, whisky in the case of grains, brandy in the case of fruits, and rum in the case of sugar cane juice.
Thank you for your comment, and I will be happy to reconsider. The only disagreement that I see is the percentage of alcohol. More alcohol would make the biblical points stronger, but the facts about alcohol off and worthy of retraction. I will reexamine my sources.
Sources reexamined the article stands.
Would you cite your sources, please? The abv that a liquid will ferment to is determined by its sugar content, not how much yeast is added. This is a scientific fact.
Yes. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament citations to wine. “All the wine [of Bible times] was light wine, i.e., not fortified with extra alcohol. Concentrated alcohol was only known in the Middle Ages when the Arabs invented distillation (“alcohol” is an Arabic word) so what is now called liquor or strong drink (i.e., whiskey, gin, etc.) and the twenty per cent fortified wines were unknown in Bible times.”
“The percentage of alcohol will be half of the percentage of the sugar in the juice. And if the alcoholic content is much above 10 or 11 percent, the yeast cells are killed and fermentation ceases. Probably ancient wines were 7-10 per cent.”
What they’re saying is that what is vulgarly referred to as “street wine” or “bum wine”, such as MD 20/20, Wild Irish Rose, Thunderbird, etc. did not exist. These are fortified wines. Ordinary table wine is not fortified, but naturally fermented.
So, yes, the wine in the New Testament era was normal wine, not fortified wine. This is a point that few would dispute. Your source hypothesizes that ancient wines were in the area of 7-10%. This can only be a hypothesis because there is no data to support it. Wine often naturally ferments to 14%. However, what I contend—with your source’s support—is that biblical wine was not merely grape juice.
“We cannot use references to wine to justify addictions to alcohol.”
Obviously, but who does that?? No one! References to wine indicate that it was the cultural norm. People drank wine. The biblical exhortations against it make it pretty clear that they’re condemning intemperance, not wine in general.
Then, as now, the vast majority of those who drank wine did so responsibly and in moderation. I think it hardly appropriate to revise the meaning of the word “wine” to suit a modern desire to excuse Jesus from having drunk alcohol, just because some have taken a disproportionate opposition to the idea of imbibing. The whole premise is founded on “probably”, “maybe”, and “perhaps”. There is no foundation in fact.
Jesus not making wine is clear. Drunkenness and excessive drinking are condemned. Of the number of drinkers I know, most get repeatedly drunk.
The science of fermentation is not disputable. Alcohol kills yeast. Distilling is necessary to increase alcohol.
Then you hang out with the wrong crowd. Nothing wrong with that really though, Jesus did it.
I’m a distiller, alcohol is my career and a significant part of my lifestyle. The majority of my personal friends and literally 100% of my business acquaintances are drinkers. I would never be so disingenuous as to claim that none of them have trouble with moderation, but I will tell you that those people are in the minority. You may underestimate just how strongly the notion of temperance in encouraged in the industry. Drunkenness is extremely frowned upon.
I’m not disputing science, I’m providing it. If you want to argue that wine won’t naturally ferment to 14%, you’ll look foolish. It’s a fact. I do it myself. I routinely ferment grain mashes up to 18% (don’t forget that the ancients also drank beer). Not all yeasts die at such low percentages. Fortified wine represents a very minor percentage of the wine made in the world and cheap, overly-strong brands are looked down on by most. They do not reflect the reality of “wine” in the majority of the world.
I’ll bow out of this discussion now; I didn’t come to debate, but to offer facts. In any case, it’s pointless to debate with someone who isn’t armed with the appropriate knowledge (in this case, common alcohol science), and I won’t debate opinions.
I wish you success in all of your worthy endeavors. Good day.
Distiller & Phil:
Love your comments. Because they are true. Good to see brothers who are not afraid to interpret scripture in truth who are not bound by legalistic thinking and false doctrines that cause them to twist and distort the scriptures to make them say what they want them to say. The wine expert at the wedding of Cana knew what he was talking about when he said in response to the wine Jesus made from water: “Most people at weddings serve their best wine first so that when the crowd is drunk they will not notice the inferior wine served later, but you have saved the best wine for last!” Just like Jesus.
Ever birds are known to get a buzz from fermented berries, w/o fortification of the alcohol in the berries.
Holy Love (see latest messages daily at http://www.holylove.org) Please pray the Rosary of the Unborn to save and stop abortion! G-d bless you.
December 14, 2013
Public
Blessed Mother says: “Praise be to Jesus.”
“Console the Heart of My Son Who mourns the loss of Truth in hearts and in the world. It is through the misinterpretation of Truth that so many are and will be misled. In Truth, there are no gray areas. Sin is clearly defined as sin. The path of righteousness is illuminated by the pure Light of Holy Love. Truth and untruth do not accommodate or tolerate each other.”
“Compromise is Satan’s tool of the destruction of souls. Dear children, do not be fooled into trying to please people by compromise. To do so, is to displease God. Let all your efforts fill the Heart of My Beloved Son with Holy Love. Do not pander any favor of man that would challenge Holy Love. Always make the distinction between good and evil by the measuring stick of Holy Love in every decision.”
“My Son’s Heart must be alleviated – and by your efforts.”
Questions—
Is drinking wine necessary? Could grape juice suffice?
Or is it self indulgence?
Is it complimentary or combative with the Holy Spirit?
Is drinking alcohol a worldly pursuit?
Do those that drink alcohol do it to escape reality to any degree?
Is looking for loopholes order to drink alcohol being obedient?
Does alcohol lead to monstrous crimes and ruin? If so, is a little bit OK?
In addition, was the law really nailed to the cross, or was it death through sin?
Were the Ten Commandments abolished or intensified by Christ? If intensified, why would Christ dismiss the 4th Commandment? Did not the RC Church state that they alone changed it to Sunday and that no scripture supports that change?
I think you neglect to address 2 important details from the wedding story. Why did the head of the party remark to Jesus that people usually bring out the good wine first to impress and the cheap wine later? Isn’t it most logical that that is because once people are more intoxicated, they can’t tell the difference? Also, why the distinction between bad and good if it was just grape juice? I don’t know about you, but I can’t really tell that much difference between bad and good grape juice unless it’s sour. But wine? That’s another story, it is EASY to discern between good and cheap wine.
So, look at these two details and decide what is most logical. I think Alcoholic wine is the answer. I question how “honest” your study was. Not that you were malicious, but maybe you just were overly influenced by prior religious belief.
Points noted. Though, you seem to imply that those at the wedding were either intoxicated already and Jesus increased this, or that the first was unfermented and so even more so the better. I imagine that without refrigeration people knew the difference between good and bad grape juice. I accidentally had some of our congregation’s old juice last week that was left out too long, and it was not fresh or sweet. It was almost gall.
I have no prior religious belief to which I will not separate with for Christ, but to make a point, I could call into question any of your prior association with wine whether religious and, or sentimental that that would persuade you. Yet besides this point, I do not desire to do so. Let us study and always be willing to reconsider.
God is witness with my heart that this was an honest study and I am one, who would be tempted to justify drinking as much as possible and even more so because of that temptation condemn it all. Yet, I have done neither here.
Yes with Jesus comes peace and freedom. Having a glass or two of alcohol is not a sin. Excessive drinking is. When you start to get tipsy you lose your inhibitions and are not of sober mind to make good decisions. Jesus wants us to be alert for when he comes. God is love and forgives us but we need to have a pure heart and mind when it comes to alcohol.
Emma,
I very much agree with you with one exception. Please study and look into the ounces of alcohol “when you start to get tipsy”. See, if by 2 glasses of alcohol you mean 5 ounces of wine in each glass, then your blood alcohol level is 0.4 and the individual under 150 lb. is more than tipsy but now drunk. The person weighing around 200 lb. has a “buzz” and has intoxicated a sober mind.
Be sure to double check me on that. The CDC has much to say. :-)
Scott. Please stop worrying about the wine corrupting the guests. Blessed Mother didn’t want the family to be embarrassed by running out of wine. She is so kind, loving and thoughtful. Whatever Jesus does is good. Blessed Mother said do what ever he asked you to do. I think the miracle is more important than the alcohol content. Don’t you.
No worrying. The concern is for the deceivers and those seducing people with alcohol to uncover their nakedness.
We all must unite in prayer to save as many souls as possible. Prayer is very powerful. G-d have mercy on all of us, these days.
Jesus is a gentleman, He is the truth and would not do anything to hurt us.
Thank you for your article on Jesus, wine and drunkeness. It’s interesting to me that those that were searching for answers online, so opposed your study. I have searched the scriptures for these answers, but I didn’t really need to to know, because The Holy Spirit confirmed in my heart a discernment that alcohol was not promoted by Jesus, and that it is not profitable. I personally hate what I have seen alcohol do, it is a destroyer, yet even Christians support it even in the face of so many strongholds. It is selfish, it has hurt many children and adults alike, yet people still “fight” for it, instead of righteousness. It is a counterfeit to the presence and peace of God, it is a destroyer and mocker. Why be in this world not sober, as Jesus has asked us to be? We have an enemy, this is a war, a war for souls-we are all facing an eternal destination-it is a narrow road. Drinking is about selfishness, you cannot drink for someone else. I am not looking to be out of control or “dulled” in any way. Why can’t we look for ways to get the peace Jesus provides instead of the carnal things the world sells? So many are perishing in strongholds! Satan wants us to be dulled in the Spirit, unaware of his devices. It makes me so mad when I look around at how he has taken root in some Christians through alcohol, it is not innocuous!!!! That is a lie from Satan himself. Jesus has more for us then a “high” from alcohol. I have seen so many Christians loose their footing from defending alcohol and using it. there is a better way to freedom!!!! Jesus makes us free from needing alcohol or wanting it. Jesus is Lord! Thank you for being uncompromising in your study and God Bless you.
Good comment. Thank you. You thought brought to my mind Romans 14:19-21.
“Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.”
We should also note Romans 14:16-18.
Good hearing from you again. Don’t you think G-d gives man good things to eat and drink, because He loves us? It is man who abuses good things from G-d, by gluttony or getting drunk. Too much food and wine will destroy your health and mind. When one man has plenty of food and drink he should share his blessings with the poor people. No food or drink you starve and die. Similar to fire. Fire is good when its under control to warm your body, to give you light, to cook your food. No fire gives you nothing but darkness and being cold. A huge fire out of control, destroys property, takes lives and is not good. G-d gives man free will. If you love G-d you obey Him.
Good thoughts. I agree with you. Your words go along with Romans 14. We should not be conflicted over food and drink. These are not matters to divide over.
Jesus said, “And he said to them, ‘Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?’ (Thus he declared all foods clean.)” (Mark 7:18-19).
Yes, the Bible is amazing.
The wedding ceremony itself was held at the groom’s father’s house and usually included only a few invited guests. At this time a series of benedictions are made and the couple were finally made husband and wife.
The wedding ceremony was then followed by seven days of celebration, great rejoicing, and finally, a marriage feast. This occasion was often held at a different place and many people were invited.
Since the Wedding Ceremony last 7 days and many people attend it, they need wine for a big crowd. It would be embarrassing if they run out of wine early. Wine was tradition for weddings. In ancient days everyone drank wine.
do you believe what you do about alcohol from the bible, or from your experience? Self control and temperance is a fruit of the Spirit. It is much more advantageous to teach people how to be temperate and self controlled than to say all alcohol is bad, which scripture does not teach. throughout the OT, wine is described as a blessing, along side passages like “Wine is a mocker.” So, what is the balance? that we need the holy spirit and to cultivate self control. Food and sex for some is just as much of a stumbling block to spirituality as alcohol for others. IT’s not about rights. Wine is a privilege, but like all things, it must be enjoyed with love for God and man. That is the rule. OF course it is not innocuous, but neither is food to the glutton, or sex to the sex addict. Do you honestly think the person at the wedding feast would have commented on saving the good wine for later if it was just grape juice? that really makes no sense. Wow, you saved the good grape juice for the last! no logic in that.
We cannot use references to wine to justify addictions to alcohol. Many do this. There is a balance to be made to not go over into drunkenness, excessive drinking, filling oneself, and drinking occasions. Christians are to be sober (1 Thess. 5:8). Otherwise, “It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak” (Rom. 14:21).
See, my more commonly read articles about addiction:
How to Overcome Habitual Sins and Addictions through Christ
Bible Verses for Overcoming Habitual Sins and Addictions
How to Prevent and Overcome Sexual Sins
Yes, save the good grape juice over the souring. I want the good grape juice. You are evidently not a fan of grape juice. :-)
I completely agree. I just don’t understand the false dichotomy in your reasoning: Either the wine of the bible was merely juice, or we are endorsing drunkeness.
Seems silly when we write it out that way, doesn’t it? But it is basically your argument.
I want you to ask yourself why there were so many references to not making a weaker brother stumble, not being drunk, and things like that if alcohol was strictly forbidden? IF it was totally off limits, you wouldn’t need those. It seems Paul and the others would have just written “don’t drink alcohol.”
and your argument at the end implies the banquet head at the wedding feast was serving sour juice (totally bad juice) first and then the “best wine.” That makes absolutely no sense.
When the bible in the NT mentions being sober it means: self controlled, temperate and of a sound mind. Obviously, this is not possible if one is drunk, but it is also not synonymous with abstinence.
Who said that wine is the Bible was merely juice? People often use Jesus to drink excessively. The question is what is excessive drinking. For 1 or 2 drinks a day, the CDC warns of health concerns.
I find the wedding feast using acceptable grapejuice, and then as Christ would, Jesus made exceptional grapejuice of the highest quality.
“Sober” does refer to general temperance and self-control. Yet when the Bible mentions “sober” in 1 Thessalonians 5, it is in contrast to drunkenness.
Add to all of this that drunkenness in Greek literally means filled and implies excessive drinking (Eph. 5:18-19, etc.). First Peter 4:3’s condemnation of “excessive drinking” and “drinking occasions” are the strongest words besides Proverbs’ warnings. These must violate self-control, but the drinkings sure concern many about their social drinking.
Lot didn’t get drunk on grapejuice.
Exactly, drunkenness is a sin, and it hinders us as it did Lot so that his daughters slept with him and got pregnant.
That wine was fermented grapejuice from the Hebrew word yayin.
Yes, that is disturbing how his daughters got him drunk, to sleep with him. Why did his daughters think all people were destroyed? Where did they get the wine?
Drinking to get drunk is a sin, because our body is a temple, We are to take care of them.
I’m going to change the subject. Did you ever hear prophesies of the chastisement of the Three Days of Darkness; where at least half to three quarters of the world’s population will be killed by God’s Just Wrath. G-d will give us a warning before this happens. What are your thoughts about what happens to the people who love and obey G-d in the last days?
Concerning the last days, I find that there will be a worldwide persecution of the Church of Christ (Rev. 20:7-9). This is a repeat of what Satan did in the first centuries when the world persecuted the Church via the rulers of Rome, Caesars (Rev. 19:19). I see that this happened in the 1st c. by there 5 rulers of Rome who were, one is, one will come for a short time, and then the 8th is the Beast (Rev. 17:9-11). In the end, people can only speculate about who will be the enemies of the Church. Some have suggested the enemies of Christians may possibly be liberal, left-wing protestant denominations or the Roman Catholics, Muslims, Communists, Socialists or atheists and agnostics. I do know that in the last days there will be a form of godliness without the power and full of sin (2 Tim. 3:1-5). At that time, so-called believers will not endure sound teaching, but having inching ears they will heap up for themselves teachers (2 Tim. 4:1-4). Yet, this state appears to have almost always been. We’ve been in the last days for over 2000 years (Heb. 1:2, cf. 2 Pet. 3:8).
After God delivers the Church by the coming of Jesus, the Church will be transformed into the spiritual bodies on earth and rise to the meet the Lord in Heaven (1 Thess. 4:15-17). Following this, the earth and all the Universe will be destroyed with fire (2 Pet. 3:10-13), and there will be a new heaven and a new earth (2 Pet. 3:13, Rev. 21:1). There in that paradise is the new Jerusalem where faithful Christians will live eternally with God (Rev. 21-22:5).
Hi Scott: I believe Jesus always takes care of His children and if they die on earth, The Good Shepard will call His faithful, sheep home. Did you ever hear of the “Chaplet of Divine Mercy” prayed at the 3:00PM hour? I pray it everyday. You might like to pray it, it is a very powerful prayer. This prayer saved my Uncle’s soul at the end of his life. On the “Chaplet of Divine Mercy”, Jesus picture it says “Jesus, I trust in you”. He is pouring out His love and Mercy on us, now, before judgment. It is only a suggestion to pray it, I just wanted to share it with you. I’m giving all my worries, love and trust to Jesus. It gives me peace. Thanks for your explanation on the end times, its hard for me to understand it. I’m glad you know the Bible so well. I pray all Christians who believe in Jesus Christ will pray for faith, hope, love and stick together to fight evil. Don’t you wish all people would follow the Ten Commandments. Jesus died to save all of us and knows whats in our hearts. Alleluia, Praise the Lord forever.
God the Father certainly takes care of His children (Rom. 8:28), and Jesus intercedes for His brethren (Rom. 8:34).
No. I have not heard of “Chaplet of Divine Mercy”. I’ll look it up.
I like the prayer taught by Christ’s Spirit through the Apostle Paul, “[D]o not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus” (Phil. 4:6-7).
About the 10 commands, love is the answered. “Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,’ and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Rom. 13:8-10).
Well said. Its a beautiful verse from the Bible. Apostle Paul was a very good disciple after Jesus made him blind and said, “Paul, why do you persecute me”. He got his eyesight back and believed in Jesus. He brought many people into the faith. Yes, they are the two greatest commandments. See http://www.holylove.org thats what they have on their website. Please read the latest messages and let me know what you think of them. Thanks
Yes, Paul said, “If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord” (1 Cor. 14:37).
He wrote, “For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11-12).
By Christ’s Spirit (1 Cor. 2:13), Paul wrote, “Every scripture is God’s breath, and is profit for doctrine, for admonition, for correction, and for training in righteousness that the person of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16-17).
Thanks for sharing these special Bible verses with me. Enjoy the Sabbath tomorrow. Praise the Lord for He is good!
I want to know the type of wine that jesus used to drink.if it is achoholic or not.
The article above is for your deductive reasoning.
Jesus changed water to wine at the Canaan Wedding. Doesn’t wine usually have alcohol in it and made from grapes? It wasn’t just grape juice.
That is the point of this article. The “wine” being made and the condemnation of drunkenness compelled me to study this further. I came to find out that the Greek word for “wine” is oinos, which generally means grape juice. This is the word used in John 2 for Jesus turning water to “wine” and yet it is grape juice. This is not wine as we think of wine today. If it contained alcohol, it must have been a very little and natural amount of no more than 3%. Otherwise, if there were any less than 1200 people at this wedding, they were all getting drunk and Jesus was encouraging it. Yet, Christ’s Spirit condemned drunkenness.
It was the custom to enjoy wine at a wedding and to celebrate the union. His Mother Mary didn’t want the family to be embarrassed, because they didn’t have enough wine for everyone. Jesus said it wasn’t time to start His ministry, but He is so loving and kind, He did change the water to wine.
There is no doubt that Jesus changed the water to oinos.
What does oinos mean? Wine?
You are a Minister? You would love Holy Love Ministry, Elyria, Ohio. (Maranatha Spring and Shrine) I just returned from a Pilgrimage for Divine Mercy Sunday, Apparition, April 7, 2013. It is a Ecumenical Mission for all of G-d’s children to know the truth. See latest messages at http://www.holylove.org for direction to save souls. .
Thank you for the link. Does this shrine venerate Mary for prayer to her?
Yes, we venerate Jesus’s Mother, Mary, and ask her to pray for us. She leads us to Jesus’s Sacred Heart. The greatest weapon against evil is to Pray the Rosary. Please read the latest messages from heaven at http://www.holylove.org. and believe. I do.
Oinos is generally grape juice or specifically fermented wine.
Not to be disrespectful, but are you missing the point about the wine and unleavened bread at the last supper. The unleavened bread is the real body of Christ. and the wine is the blood of Christ. We eat and drink Him to save our souls. It is the most beautiful, loving grace He ever gave to us. Praise the Lord, for He is Love.
Anita
I have written other articles on the Lord’s Supper (Eucharist). I am certainly not overlooking the life that is in partaking of the Lord’s Supper. We partake of real bread and fruit of the grapevine for the Lord’s Supper in the Assembly every 1st day of the week (Matt. 26:26-29, Acts 20:7, etc.). I read and believe Jesus’ words in John 6:51-56,
“‘I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.‘”
We find that neither in Christ’s words nor in the words of Christ’s Spirit through His Apostles and prophets to teach that the substance of the bread and fruit of the grapevine are transformed into Jesus’ actual body and blood. None of Jesus’ words in the Gospels nor the Apostolic words of Paul teach this idea (Matt. 26, Mark 14, Luke 22, 1 Cor. 11:17-34). Rather we partake of the bread and the fruit of grapevine in remembrance of Christ’s body and blood given for us all. The words of Christ and the Apostles get preeminence over traditions without their consent, and respectfully I challenge you that the idea of transubstantiation does not have any substance from Christ or His Apostles. For Paul commanded by God that Christians are to observe Apostolic traditions just as delivered (1 Cor. 11:2, 14:37). For their words are complete for every good work is in Scripture (2 Tim. 3:16-17). With every good thing written in Scripture, these include every good thing spoken (2 Thess. 2:15). These Scriptures were collected by the Apostles in the 1st century as the Apostles note in the Scriptures (2 Pet. 1:16-21, 3:15-16, 1 John 1:1-4, 1 Tim. 5:18, Luke 1:1-3). None of their words lead Christians to a specific set of traditions outside of the Apostolic Scriptures. There are no traditions that can be accepted outside of Scripture from the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, or any church. I can only be a Christian, follow Christ, and simply be a member of His Church.
Also, though we honor Mary as any other righteous woman, we cannot venerate her or pray to her. These are ideas foreign to Jesus’ words and those of His Apostles. We must not add to the doctrine of Christ and thus condemn our own souls (2 John 9, Revelation 22:18-19). No one, no Apostle, and not even an angel can bring other words concerning the Gospel that we can accept as the Gospel than what has been delivered by Christ and His Apostles (Galatians 1:6-9).
I strongly urge you to reconsider the basis for your beliefs and simply follow Christ’s words and those of His Apostles first. Follow these words of the Truth to the Truth. May God bless you in your studies of Christ’s words and those of His Apostles.
Transubstantiation is a mystery from G-d. It is hard for us to understand this loving grace, when we receive Jesus, but it is true. I believe what Jesus said “‘I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.‘” His other followers left after hearing this, but his faithful apostles stayed, believing Him. When I receive Jesus’s body and blood, I believe He enters my heart and we become one. Go to youtube and find the bleeding host, “Eucharist at Betania, Venuzuela Miracle of the Eucharist Host – 1998”. Some Priest even question if it is really the body of Christ and Jesus proves it to us through miracles.
Blessed Mother should be honored. Jesus honors his loving Mother. Why wouldn’t we honor Her. She brings us closer to Her son, Jesus. She is the obedient woman, the new Eve, who said yes to the Angel Gabriel’s request to be the Mother of Christ. She could have been stoned, but Joseph married her. She gave birth to Jesus, raised Him and suffered at the Cross with Jesus. She suffered as much as He did, but did not die. Did you ever ask a friend to pray for you? Try praying to Mary, it is not a sin. We worship Jesus, and we respect His Mother. She comes to us in apparitions to bring us back to loving and obeying G-d. See the Miracle of “Our Lady of Guadalupe” which happened in Mexico.
I’ve never been happier for receiving my loving Jesus at communion and honoring Jesus’s Mother who loves all of us.
Information about the video on youtube, Uploaded on Feb 4, 2007 below:
Miracle captured on video by Daniel Sanford of New Jersey. On 11/13/98, as part of the pilgrimage, he went to see the Bleeding Host of Betania at the Chapel of the Augustinian Nuns in Los Teques. The Spiritual Director, Father Mazzarella, said Daily Mass. When they finished, he opened the Tabernacle door, which contained the Bleeding Host. The Host was in flames, bleeding, and there was a pulsating heart bleeding in the center of the Host. Daniel watched this for about 30 seconds or so, then the Host returned to normal. HOWEVER, He did manage to film this miracle with his camcorder!
G-d bless you,
Anita
Anita,
Thank you for your respectful words and kindness. I see that you believe and follow a specific tradition for its claim to miracles. We must first turn to the miracles of Christ and His Apostles, and follow their teachings to the Church that perceives Christ to be perfect and so His words are perfect that He have given to His Apostles and prophets (John 15:20, 17:8). I think we both agree that we don’t need a camcorder to record the miracles of Jesus and His Apostles either. Yet, we do need eyewitnesses of Christ. For this reason the Apostles wrote (1 John 1:1-4, cf. 2 Pet. 1:16-21). Jesus healed multitudes and did many miracles (Mark 1:34, 3:10, Luke 6:19). His miracles were accomplished and recorded for a reason, which is to believe first in Him (John 20:30-31, Heb. 2:3-4). Therefore, we must follow Christ to where He leads. We must start at His words and follow them to all Truth. His words have not us to extra truth outside of His perfect words. We cannot follow an additional tradition or creeds that exclude others believers like ourselves, who partake of the Lord’s Supper as Jesus instituted and His Apostles wrote. Therefore, we are excluded for Christ.
May God bless you in your spiritual growth and may Christ lead us all to be simply Christians and His one Church.
Dear Scott: You seem to be a man strong in your faith, your love for Jesus Christ and your knowledge of the Bible is beautiful. The miracles, I mentioned is for the lukewarm, atheist, the ones without strong faith, and the ones looking for proof. Our religions are different, but our faith is the same. We love G-d first and neighbor second. We believe Jesus Christ died on the cross to give us eternal life. We follow the Ten Commandments and seek the truth. All Christians should stick together during these trying times. Lets all pray together and spread the good news, around the world. Only Jesus knows whats in our hearts and loves us soooo much. It is sad how many people have lost their way and don’t even attend church or believe anymore. We must pray for our children to stay strong in the faith. Lets work together as friends in Christ. I receive many Blessings from Holy Love Ministries, Elyria, Ohio. Its a Refuge of Holy Love, to recharge your faith with others who understand the truth. We pray together and it gives all of us strength. Peace be with you. G-d is love, and G-d loves you!!!
Anita
You are certainly strong in your faith. I certainly desire unity as I presume that we both stand for the lives of unborn babies. I truly respect your admiration of Christ. I also desire that we pray together to our heavenly Father that we may all diligently follow Him. Thank you for your thoughts and considerations of my words.
Yes, I pray the “Rosary of the Unborn” everyday to save the unborn babies. I wish everyone would.
With all due respect, transubstantiation is an idea from the occult. They have even tested it scientifically. It doesn’t turn into anything other than what it is-juice and bread. Spiritually it represents His blood and body, but it doesn’t have to literally become that for us to receive the benefit.
As far as praying to Mary, was Jesus a priest forevermore in the order of Melchesidek or not? If yes, as the bible says, then we need no intermediary, we can go straight to God. And unless Mary is God, praying to her is idolatry, and consulting with the dead-necromancy, both forbidden by God himself.
Please believe that the Host is Jesus, when blessed by a Priest at Mass. It is not an occult. Please watch the video on youtube at Betania, Venuzuela. Miracle of the Eucharist Host – 1998. Another one at Buenos Aires, Argentina Miracle, and the Eucharist Miracle at Lanciano. Please have respect and honor Jesus’s Mother Mary. Stop and think of the special love between Jesus and Mary. Did you ever ask someone to pray for you? I ask Mary to pray for me, because don’t you think Jesus will honor her prayers for us? I don’t worship Her, I love Her, just like Jesus loves Her. Anita
It’s not Jesus, that is idolatry worship of an object, and Doctrine seeking to crucify the Lord again. And yes, it did come from pagan practices. research it, don’t take my word for it.
you sure.Mary can hear you? Have you not read 1 timothy 2:5: For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, I am not impressed with Eucarist miracles, for they cannot over-ride the scriptures, but in fact affirm the false doctrine.
2 Thessalonians: 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
read these articles. pray to Jesus, not mary and ask Him to show you the truth. He is the mediator, if you pray to her, you have no gaurantee she can even hear you, much less do anything. I ask living people to pray for me. You don’t love her like Jesus did, for you would not exalt her. That’s not honor, it’s worship that robs God of His honor. She even said she needed a savior, which is why she referred to Jesus as “our savior” and also why she went through the ritual sacrifices to cleanse herself after birth, etc. You are believing in doctrines that expressly go against clear things written in the bible.
http://carm.org/praying-saints-biblical
http://carm.org/transubstantiation
@Jeffrey
•The Eucharist doesn’t crucify the Lord again. If you want to misrepresent the Catholic Church then you should learn what the Catholic Church teaches.
• Lot’s of things you believe came from pagan practices (the God-Man, the resurrection, hell, etc.), so I guess your beliefs are pagan and wrong;)
• I’m sure she read 1 Tim 2:5, after all, her Church wrote it and put it in the Bible. “Mediator” has nothing to do with prayer. Jesus is the one Mediator in that he died for us–praying to Mary has nothing to do with your misunderstood proof-text. If the World were subject to your narrow interpretation of what “mediation” mean, then Jesus would not have been born, because it was a mediator (Mary) who allowed it to happen. It were mediators (the Catholic Apostles and bishops) who Jesus gave his authority, it was a mediator (the Catholic Church) that created the Bible, and it is a mediator (Carm???) who teaches you all your modern theories.
• Ha! 2 Thess 2 is used by all the cults to prove that their nemesis is wrong and that they’re right. In context, it makes much more sense to think all the latter-day cults and Christo-like “churches” that have sprung up are the end-times apostates. After all, it is the Protestants who “came out” of the Church.
• You are the one who should “read”, Jeffrey. The real Church has a paper trail, and you would learn a lot if you read something before plastic was invented. It is also pretty low of you to imply that she doesn’t pray to God, because (again) if you learned anything about the Catholic Church you would know that we pray to him quite a bit.
• “if you pray to her, you have no gaurantee [sic] she can even hear you, much less do anything.” Wow! Right back at ya! If you pray to God there is not guarantee that He can hear you. But we know that God is the God of the living, and we know that Mary is living, and we know she is our mother, and we know she prays for us. Put it together.
• You don’t know what worship it, Jeffery. Catholics worship only God. If you understood worship, you would not bear false witness and slander a billion of your brother. What you should do is learn what the Catholic Church teaches instead of relying on the same ol’ garbage that people who put themselves first propagate.
• Yes, Mary needed a Savior. Do you have a point? Jesus saved her most perfectly, as a most perfect Savior can. Again, learn about the Church so that you don’t say such goofy things.
• “You are believing in doctrines that expressly go against clear things written in the bible.” Your interpretation of the Bible is not the Bible. In other words, you are just some guy who swiped an abridged version of the Catholic Church’s Bible and then you’ve called your interpretation the Word of God. Crazy! There is nothing in the Bible that the Church has violated–n-o-t-h-i-n-g, and she can’t; she created it.
Pax
Blessed Mother, started Jesus’s ministry, because changing the water to wine, was Jesus’s first amazing miracle. Jesus really loved His Mother, and answered her request. We should all love and honor her, just like Jesus did. I cry, knowing how many people disgrace this Holy Woman. I’m doing the First five Saturday’s of the Month to ease Her sorrow. Praying the Holy Rosary, daily is also our greatest weapon against evil. All Christians should join in this powerful prayer. The Chaplet of Divine Mercy is also very powerful, (especially at 3:00PM). Pray anything, anytime, just pray! Lets fill all the Christian Church’s weekly. One hour, for Jesus.
We Christians who love G-d must obey the two most important commandments: 1) to love G-d above anything else and 2) to love your neighbor. We must obey the Ten Commandments. Lets all join in prayer for love, hope and peace as one in Christ. Lets be the Remnant Faithful who love the “Holy Trinity” and to save all the souls we can for Christ’s Kingdom. We should honor Jesus’s mama, Mary. She said yes to help in our salvation. She loved and raised Jesus, and was with him at the cross. She is the new Eve and our Blessed Mother. She weeps for her children and leads us to her son, Jesus. Say this everyday, “Mournful Heart of Jesus, have mercy on me.
Jeffrey, You do believe that “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Col. 2:9) and “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (John 8:58)?
The LORD said, “Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me”, (Isa. 58:16).
Anita,
We should honor Mary, but neither pray nor venerate her as “the Mother of God”. This is not according to Christ’s words or according to the Apostolic doctrine. I hope you will reconsider.
Dear Scott:
Do you believe in the Trinity? Mary is G-d the Father’s daughter, Mary is Mother to Jesus (G-d/Man) and Spouse to the Holy Spirit. Since all three are G-d, Mary is the Mother of G-d. We honor Mary because G-d honors her. Don’t you ask a prayerful, faithful man or woman to pray for you? Why not ask the most holiest woman who was favored by G-d to pray for us. Did you every pray for anyone who asked you to pray for them? Please read the true story’s of “Our Lady of Guadalupe”, Mexico, Fatima, or Lourdes miracles. You will understand her importance. Thanks for listening.
Anita
I believe in God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I do not believe Mary to be the spouse of the Spirit. She is no more a daughter of God than any other sister in Christ. Mary is the mother of Jesus by birthing Him in flesh. Yet, Jesus is eternal. He is the fullness of God in the body (Col. 2:9). These are scriptural points and not revelations of a church separated from the Apostles’ doctrine.
Can these miracles be verified?
Dear Scott:
We could argue forever, but as for me I will always honor and love, Mary. Mary is special, because she said, ” yes”, to bring Jesus into the world, for our salvation. Did you ever think what would have happened if Mary said no? She would have been stoned for sinning, because she was engaged to Joseph. “Dear precious Mary, I pray for Scott to understand you better. Please show him the truth, because he is a faithful son. Thanks Mother Mary for hearing my prayer. Please check out “Lady of Guadalupe”, Jose coat still exist, and you can see it in Mexico, on display.
I am not arguing. I am stating my faith and challenging you to reconsider. I mean my words with all respect and kindness for which text cannot fully present. I will search “Lady of Guadalupe” now.
Thanks for checking out Lady of Guadalupe, and let me know what you think of the story. St. Jose’s coat, lasted over 500 years still on display in Mexico.