We know that there are no perfect people. “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom 3:23). With imperfect people making up congregations, it is safe to say that there are no perfect congregations. The Bible presents the imperfections of Apostles and the sins of congregations. From these truths, many have drifted from the truth in God’s ideal accepting all kinds of strange teachings and practices. Some have gone into a form of universalism, which is that they believe everyone will be saved no matter their denomination. The reasoning is that since there are no perfect churches than one church is just as saved as another. This would contradict the Scriptures that there are heresies as Galatians 5:20 reveals that those who practice “heresies”, in Greek meaning religious parties and sects, “will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven.” Religious parties are exactly the landscape professing Christendom today.
Should we accept what Christ has accepted and reject what He has rejected? Should we accept or even allow false teachings? Should we fellowship as brothers with those who reject the deity of Christ? What about those who reject the words of Christ given to His prophets via His Spirit (John 14:26, 16:12-13)? What about those who assert that they have further words of Christ through revelation of His Spirit (Jude 3, 2 Tim. 3:16-17)? What about those who reject the one baptism that Christ established for believers to be saved (Mark 16:16)? What about those who reject the order and decency of the Assembly (1 Cor. 14:40)? What about those who reject the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10)? What about those who neglect pasturing elders (Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:1-4, 1 Tim. 3)? Should we be a part of churches that are not striving to observe all things that Christ commanded because all churches are not perfect?
“Well that’s just your interpretation. You’re narrow-minded and arrogant.” Are we? Can we not know the Truth (John 8:32) and yet Jesus neglected to mention that each person’s own interpretation is truth? Was Jesus arrogant to think that His disciples could know the Truth? We can know the Truth, God’s Word (John 17:17). Yet, there are hundreds of parties and denominated sects. Was Jesus mistaken to say that those who love Him will have His commands and obey them (John 14:21-24)? Was Jesus so ignorant to command that we observe all things He commanded even though we can’t (Matt. 28:20)? Was the Spirit of Christ wrong to instruct Christians to “be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” (1 Cor. 1:10)? Was the Apostle Paul wrong to test the Corinthian Christians to see if they were obedient in all things (2 Cor. 2:9)?
“Oh, but grace covers our sins?” Grace does not cleanse the sins that you practice. We cannot continue in sin that grace may abound (Rom. 6:1). We are justified and saved by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1-2, Eph. 5:8). How can we be saved acting outside of faith (Rom. 14:23)? This is why faith without works is dead (James 2:17, 26). The Spirit of Christ says in 1 John 3:6-10,
“Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.”
The difference between saved person and lost person is the same for churches. Churches that practice lawlessness are not of God. Their willingly ignorant leaders and teachers will be judged strictly. There is a great different between an imperfect church that observes all things and occasionally stumbles from those imperfect churches that observe most things and yet practices sin (1 Cor., Rev. 2-3). All are capable of doing God’s will.
There is a lot of pride happening here. Lets not forget Romans 14 brothers.
Romans 14 applies to inferences of reasoning rather than Christ’s words of His new covenant.
As for the church of Christ, see this http://www.searchingfortruth.org/.
waste of time on this site………..
This comment is about your post on 1/12 at 2:22pm, you stated that this dosent make sense that Christ`s church would go against Christ. Then you stated As for the Old Law of Old Covenant given to the people of Israel I will follow Christ and accept that the old covenant is gone (Hebrews 8:13). You are like millions of others that think the laws and commandments were given to the people of Israel, the laws and commandments were written and given BEFORE Israel was even a nation, there was no Israel before the people came into the promised land. I`d like to know if you are a preacher or not? If so it seems like you might have decided to carry and teach out of the new testament only, the new goes with the old and if we dont search out the scriptures we might as well not read them at all. And if you think nothing is in effect from the old today then you must believe as the Baptist believe that once saved always saved…..
Keeping the Sabbath has EVERYTHING to do with keeping the new covenent. For we keep all of the original commandments, unlike the church of christ we do not go against them, Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments, you sir say We should certainly not keep Moses’ law and the Sabbath as Galatians 4 teaches. Just who`s law do you keep? The one that Constantine changed for the roman catholics? Jesus never said my laws are changed, just keep the new ones that are going to come along. I dont know what bible you are using but my KJV says in Revelations chapter 22 verse 14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. If you wont to teach anything that goes against the scriptures please deleate my post, after all, it`s your site, so you must always be the one to be right, but for this action you will have to explain it to God on judgement day when he asks you why you deleated truth from the eyes of those hungry for the truth. The Sabbath has never and will never be changed to the first day of the week, as for our hierachy it is to obay Gods commandments, unlike others. It is you that does err for not knowing the true scriptures or for refusing to obay them. nuff said, do as you like
This does not make sense that Christ’s Church would go against Christ.
As for the Old Law of Old Covenant given to the people of Israel, I will follow Christ and accept that the old covenant is gone (Hebrews 8:13).
Scott, i dont wont to go head to head with you, you have your beliefs and i have mine, you belong to the church of christ i belong to the 7th day Adventists church, i have been in the church of christ before, you know, no musical instruments even though David said he would come before the LORD singing, dancing, and playing stringed instruments. You say the church of christ is The church that is the real church Jesus left, well why not the church of God also, was not Jesus God in the flesh? Oh, i forgot, some of the church of God worship on the true Sabbath also. I am not trying to change your mind on anything, just commenting on what the scriptures say, and by the way, if you can show me anywhere in the scriptures that the Sabbath was changed from the last day to the first in the scriptures, our church will give you $200,000 in cash, thats a binding contract, if you feel up to it. http://www.piedmontsda.com/article.php?id=6
You quote Hebrews 8-13 as to the new covenent, but if you would continue on to Hebrews chapter 9 v 11-15 you will find just what the new covenant is all about, the only change given is that all animal sacrifices are done away with and tha Jesus became a sacrafice for all that keep his commandments. For there is no more precious blood than that of our LORD. Anyone can take a scripture and turn it into what they like to hear, but we are told to search the scriptures to find the truth, John 5:39 and for this the Bereans were commended..
This person is wrong here. Everything has changed. The passover feast has changed (1 Cor. 5:6-8). The Sabbath was only a shadow of things to come (Col. 2:16-17). The Sabbath changed to the heavenly rest in Hebrews 3:16-4:11. Hebrews is all about the better covenant and the 1st day of the week is not Sabbath. No one can make that claim. Observing the Sabbath is death to the Christian.
See how he does recognize that the Old Covenant is obsolete, growing old to vanish away (Heb. 8:13). All sabbath instructions come from this law, which 2 Cor. 3 calls “the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones”, “which glory was passing away”, “the ministry of condemnation”, and twice more “what is passing away”. Jeremiah 31:31-32 clearly says, “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah —not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.” Can it be any clearer?
Lastly condemnation waits for those who follow the law of Moses. “You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace” (Gal. 5:4). Galatians 3:10-12, “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.’ But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for ‘the just shall live by faith.’ Yet the law is not of faith, but ‘the man who does them shall live by them.’” Galatians 3:24-25, “Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” Galatians 4:10, “You observe days and months and seasons and years.”
Thorough refutation of keeping the Sabbath is here [https://godsbreath.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/not-keep-the-sabbath-day/].
Will your rest be in the Sabbath or Christ?
Galatians 4:24-25, 30, “which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar — for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children…Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? ‘Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.'”
Ephesians 2:14-16, “For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.”
And just what day do you consider to be the Sabbath? You say the old laws are not in effect anymore, we are now under a new covenant, i know that you are talking about being saved by faith and grace now, but in Romans 3/31 we are told, Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we “establish the law”. No mention of things done away with. As far as us still keeping the Sabbath on saturday, yes we do keep it then, thats what God intended for us to do all along as found in Isaiah 58/13&14. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Also you can say what you wont to about Ellen White, we do not follow her in any way, unlike other churches we only follow the scriptures as God intended us to do. If you were to draw a straight line from the beginning of time until now and God followed it you would notice it is always straight, if you drew a line from the beginning of time to now and man followed it you would notice it has all kinds of bends and curves, and each time was when man decided he thought he could do better by himself insted of doing as God had told him to do. Such as changing times and times again. And as far as the papist it`s good to hear that you have nothing in common with them, for as the scriptures in Revelations chapters 12-14 do teach that the vatican is the beast, it has already been wonded when the pope was kidnapped and died. After that the vatican stopped exzisting. People all over thought it was now dead. This wound nearly killed it, but then hunderds of years later a new pope was elected and has had its deadly wound healed, it is all in satans planning for us to be decieved by the keeping of the Sabbath, on this hang the balance of good and evil, saved or lost and he knows it, when Christ comes back for his bride he will not accept anyone that does not keep his Sabbath, we were warned about this time and time again, in the old testament and in the new, Jesus said let those that have ears to hear, and eyes to see, why do you suppose he said this many, many times? So we could search the scriptures and know the truth, you can say what you wont to about me, i could care less, i am doing only what our Fathes has laid on me, to teach the scriptures as they were wrote, i have never added anything to them or taken anything away from them, unlike other denomations, I wish to argue with no one, i only wish all those that prepose to know Christ to enter through the gates of heaven in the end, best wishes to you and yours, rickey venn….
You are clearly sincere and dedicated. I have studied this long and hard. I am prepared to stand before my God today for keeping the first day of the week as the Lord’s Day just as the Apostle Paul with the Christians at Troas did in Acts 20. I recognize the day that Jesus was resurrected being the “third day”, the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1, John 20:19). Jesus broke the bread on this day (Luke 24:35), which is the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor. 10:16).
The Law of Moses in its purpose was established as Romans 3:31 says. Its purpose was to be a tutor. “Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” (Gal. 3:24-25). How are we no longer under the Law of Moses? Romans 3:28 says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” Righteousness does not come from the Law of Moses (Gal. 3:21).
The context of Isaiah 58 is clearly speaking to those guilty in Israel who about to go into Babylonian captivity. See Isaiah 57:1-13 and idolatrous Israel. Isaiah 59:2-3, “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; And your sins have hidden His face from you, So that He will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, And your fingers with iniquity; Your lips have spoken lies, Your tongue has muttered perversity.” I would hope that these would repent and keep the Sabbath since they are under the Law of Moses.
Again, the Sabbath is Saturday. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. These are true of Christ who lived under the Law of Moses to deliver us from the Law of Moses.
Scott, you are right, i am sincere and dedicated, not only in the church at the Pulpit but in the streets where people need to hear the truth most, i never come off by telling someone that they are not going to make it to heaven if they dont obey God, he said that himself. But i believe i know where you are comming from, i have a brother, a sister and a daughter that are all baptist, when i try to talk to them all i get is the ole once saved always saved, i usually have to remind them that Judas was once saved himself, but was lost in the end even tho he repented, our God does give up on us after so long, a lot of people dont wont to believe that but it will be a shock to them in the end. I hear from each one of them that they are saved by grace having the faith that Jesus was the son of God, i ask them , if your faith was sincere in believing that Jesus was who he said he was then you would do all you could to please him, this includes keeping the laws and commandments. I will explain that in a moment, first i ask them if you believe that the first day of the week is ths Sabbath then why do you go to your church for an hour, then you wont to come home, cook a big dinner or go out and eat, or go shopping, my brother likes to come in and go hunting, even tho i tell them that we are supposed to keep the Sabbath holy they cant see it that way, they still think they are in the saved bunch even though they dont open their bibles and even try to find answers or studdy. I tell them that we are not here to please ourself`s, the scriptures tell us that if we are the friend of the world we are the enemy of God, to love not the world or the things in it but to store up our treasures in heaven, but they wont listen, just like no one listened to Noah when he was building the ark. They hadn`t seen rain so they thought he was crazy until the door was sealed up and the rains begain to fall, they found it to be to late to believe then. When i am told that the laws were nailed to the cross i ask which ones? The reply is HUH? Yes, thats right, which ones were nailed to the cross, when making decisions on what Christ abolished at the cross we can find in Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace. We must note here that the only law being talked about was the ceremonial law, not the moral law. Jesus did not give us a new code but he also didn`t say that the moral teachings of the old testament were suspended. What did Christ take away? Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, John 1:29 . What has Jesus abolished? Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2nd Timothy 1:10..Why do we keep the seventh day of the week as the Sabbath and holy? And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made, Genesis chapter 2 verses 2/3. The fourth commandment was written in stone, Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20 verses 8-11. What did Jesus say about this commandment? If you love me keep my commandments, not some of them, all of them, John 14/15. In view of the comming dustruction of Jerusalem Christ told his disciples to pray that your flight be not in the winter neither on the Sabbath, Jerusalem was sacked fourty years after Christ`s crucifixion, so what he was saying was the Sabbath would still be observed. In his most famous sermon Jesus said, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil, Matthew 5/17. How enduring did Jesus say the law is? For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled, Matthew 5/18. Note that in the Greek launguage one jot is the crossing of the letter T. Is there any mentioning of the Sabbath going to be changed mentioned in the scriptures? Yes. Look in Daniel 7/25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Who was this that made the change? It was changed by emperor Constaine In the year 321 A.D by orders of the Roman Papacy. Note, the pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain or interpret even devine laws, the pope can modify divine law since his power is not of man but og God, and he acts as vicegerent of God on earth. Does the Papacy acknowledge the changing of the Sabbath? It does. Question, How prove you that the church has the power to command feast and holydays? Answer. by the very act of changing the Sabbath into sunday, which Protestants allow of. Question, have you anyother way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals or precept? Answer, Had she not such power she couldn`t have done that in which all modern religions agree with her, she could not have subsituted the observance of sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority. Question, then which day is Sabbath? Answer, Saturday is the Sabbath, question, then why do we observe sunday insted of saturday? Answer, we observe sunday insted of saturday because the Catholic Church transfered the solemenity from saturdat to sunday. The converts catechism of Catholic Doctrine 1946. So Scott, you walk with God as you feel, as for me i will walk with the LORD in his scriptures, sincerealy, Rickey Venn
John chapter 14 verse 15. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. Lot of people say they were nailed to the cross with Jesus, no such thing, the commandments are as much in effect today as they were when Christ walked the earth, the only thing besides Jesus that was nailed to the cross was the blood sacrafice, when Jesus was on the cross he took the place that no animal ever cood, by his blood are we saved. Jesus said he came not to do away with the law or the prophets but that through him they would be fulfilled. Funny how the sunday keeping people believe every commandment is still in effect but the sabbath. They need to study revelations, Gods seal in the foreheads will be those that keep his Sabbath, not mans. Revelations 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. The fourth commandment is very much in effect today….
Be careful about hobby riding through these posts or I will delete your comments.
Keeping the Sabbath has nothing to do with Christ’s new covenant in His blood. You spill out the same the irrational nonsense about Revelation that all Ellen White followers do. Keeping the Lord’s Day on the 1st day of the week has nothing to do with the mark of the Beast. We have no allegiance to the Papists, but to the Scriptures that clearly show that there is a Lord’s Day for the Assembly and it is the 1st day of the week (as presented in the post on the Lord’s Day). Refute the points there. Then you may have those of us who are honest to repent.
You speak of keeping Sabbath, but the 7th day Adventists have a hierarchy like the Catholics do and unlike the Church of Christ in the Scriptures. They cast aside the elders in Christ’s organization of His Church (Acts 28:20ff, 1 Tim. 3, Titus 1, 1 Pet. 5). They have neglected that the Lord’s Supper is for the Assembly and yet your assemblies do practice the Lord’s Supper every assembly (1 Cor. 11:20, 33), but would rather take a collection once, twice, three, and four times when I visited (the collection, a college, the children’s ministry, and the guest pianist’s ministry). They have made baptism in Jesus’ name equal to that of John’s baptism, which is clearly wrong (Acts 19:1-7). They neglected immersion as being for salvation (Mark 16:16), and that it is the point of the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38, 22:16).
If the leaders of the 7th Day Adventist church loved Christ, would they not have His commands and keep them (John 14:21)?
I tell you what scott, you just go ahead and kick me off here, for i will not go along with any liars that go against the teachings of Christ, at least what i teach comes from the scriptures, not from some biggioted person who wonts to live his way insted of folling Christ and make himself feel good about it….Do as you will but as for me and my house we will serve the LORD and him alone will we serve………..
You can slander and libel me here if you want.
you did that yourself, no need for self destruction…
We should certainly not keep Moses’ law and the Sabbath as Galatians 4 teaches.
Evidently from Rev. 1:10; Jesus and the churches of Asia assembled on “the Lord’s Day” for Jesus was in the midst the churches (Rev. 1:13, 20). This is the day of the Assembly, which is the time of the Lord’ Supper (1 Cor. 11:20, 33). This is the meeting that must not be forsaken (Heb. 10:24-25).
By “reject”, I mean those who do not observe the Assembly on the Lord’s Day. Jesus said that His commission was for “teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you” (Matt. 28:20).
What about those who reject the Lord’s Day (Rev. 1:10)?
What do you mean “reject”? Do keep it as a law or ordinance? ”
Fears for the Church
8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God (Born Again), how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements (the law and handwriting of requirements), to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Keeping” a sabbath day is just like keeping the practice of circumcision. We are cursed if we rely on the law for our goodness and salvation and not relying completely on our faith in Jesus Christ.. out of love we please God through faith not by any keeping of days, seasons or handwriting of requirements..