How much should Christians seek to follow biblical patterns for life and the church? Following biblical patterns includes following specific examples that define God’s instructions. Patterns are the order, designs, models, and examples found in the Bible. This “pattern theology” or “patternism” has been rejected by many church leaders, because the biblical examples exclude contradictory practices among various churches. If believers accepted the idea of the following the examples in the Bible, many teachings and practices would change.
Christ is the Pattern
Christ is the Christian example. Jesus’s example of humility is incomparable. Jesus set the example of being a servant by washing His disciples’ feet. Jesus said in John 13:15, “For I have given you a pattern [example], that you should do as I have done to you.” Jesus set the example, the model, the pattern to be imitated. Christ’s Spirit spoke through Peter saying in 1 Peter 2:21, “For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example [pattern], that you should follow His steps.” The idea of following in one’s steps is to follow one’s example, and in this case, Christians follow the imprinted pattern of Jesus’ steps. Christ being the pattern is the basis of “pattern theology.”
Without the pattern examples of Jesus Christ, then the Bible would be lists of commands with some advice and poetry dispersed across accounts of history. The Bible is not merely list of commands but also of examples, virtues, and principles. The New Testament is a text containing Christ’s words whether from His mouth or from His Spirit through His apostles and prophets (John 6:63; 16:12–13). By this, the New Testament and the whole of the Bible is a book of virtues among other things. These virtues are defined by commands and examples, and these commands are also defined by example. There is a form of pattern theology in the Bible.
Imitating Biblical Examples
Those who follow a pattern or example are imitators. The Greek for imitate is mimetes, and according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, to imitate is “to follow as a pattern, model, or example.” Christians are to be imitators. This means that Christians mimic the form, the model, and the design given by Christ. Third John 11 says, “Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.” Christians are commanded to imitate the good behavior of others. In Hebrews 6:12, the apostle urged, “imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” Elders are commanded to be examples to the flock (1 Peter 5:3). All Christians are also to be examples for others (1 Pet 2:12). Paul praised the Thessalonian Christians for being examples to all of Greece (1 Thess 1:7). Are believers going to be inerrant imitators? No. Salvation does not rest on being flawless, but rather that believers walk in the light and therefore diligently striving to imitate Jesus (1 John 1:7). As is seen throughout the New Testament, imitating and walking are one and the same.
Biblical Examples and Principles
In considering following Christ’s pattern, Christians are likely to ask, “What must Christians imitate?” Christians imitate character and virtue. Every New Testament command has a virtuous principle behind it. Therefore, Christians define virtues, which are principles, by God’s commands and examples defining these commands. Defining examples need no specific citations, because the New Testament is filled with these. However, observe the instruction of Christ’s Spirit regarding the virtue of humility. Paul referred to Jesus coming as a lowly servant in Philippians 2. In Philippians 2:5, Paul commanded, “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.” Jesus gave up His position in heaven to come here as a servant and His example defined humility. His pattern is binding to the instruction to be lowly and to esteem others higher than ourselves (Phil 2:3–4).
The instructions of the New Testament are embedded within specific situations as give examples and application to Christ’s commands. This is common in life. When an employer gives his employees work and shows them how to do what he has instructed, then he expects those workers to follow his example as much as his example is a good. However, Jesus’s example is always good. Throughout life, people set good and bad examples. Children define the roles of father, mother, husband, and wife by their parents’ examples. Christians learn from the examples of the New Testament about what is means to be a Christian. In like manner, the New Testament sets positive examples that define how believers obey God’s commands.
Biblical Examples for Life
The Bible is not just Sunday morning stories, but rather defining narratives of faithful and righteous living. These biblical accounts define Christ, faith, and obedience. When it comes to following the biblical pattern, many teach “church pattern” and the others say “no pattern.” “No pattern” is wrong. Only “church pattern” is incomplete when not considering patterns for Christian living.
The New Testament establishes a pattern of Christian living. In Ephesians 5:1–2, Paul reasoned, “Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.” In Ephesians 5:3–7, Paul defined further how one should be an imitator of God and walking in love. Therefore, Christians imitate by putting off the sins of sexual immorality and filthy speaking. This virtuous living must still be carried into our homes, workplaces, and stores even though the text does not explicitly command this in the context. The apostle Paul has more to say about following the pattern of Christian living. Paul exhorted in Philippians 3:17, “Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.” The pattern is set not just by Paul but in all who walk.
Examples and patterns a synonymous and interchangeable being translated from the same Greek words tupos, hupotuposis, and hupodeigma. How can Christians know this pattern by the examples of the apostles and others throughout the New Testament? Christians read of their lives in light of their obedience to God’s commands. Christ’s Spirit said through Paul in Philippians 4:9, “The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.” By seeing, one can only receive an example — a defining of pattern of life.
Imitating Christ and Observing Apostolic Traditions
Noting the examples of these who imitate Christian living, these also practice the pattern of doctrine, worship, and government of the church that Christ built. In the New Testament, Christians imitate the apostles’ doctrines and traditions (Acts 2:41–47). Paul also instructed in 1 Corinthians 11:1–2, “Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you.” Paul commanded imitation by keeping apostolic traditions delivering modesty in prayer and the Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11.
Christ’s example in instituting the Lord’s Supper defined what how Christians observe the memorial. In Paul’s instruction of the Lord’s Supper, he used Jesus’s example and pattern to command the memorial of the Lord’s Supper. What gives Paul’s example authority? If Paul were not an example of Christ, then his example would have no authority (1 Cor 11:1–2). Paul also said in 1 Corinthians 4:16–17, “Therefore I urge you, imitate me. For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord, who will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach everywhere in every church.”
Binding Examples
The New Testament scriptures give Christians the examples they need to obey Christ’s commands. For example, there is no command that one must use water for baptism in Jesus’ name (Acts 2:38). However, there is a pattern and there are examples, which clearly define baptism in Jesus name to consist of water (Acts 10:47–48). Acts 8:36–38 and 10:47–48 is a binding example to the commands to be baptized for the releasing of sins.
Pattern of Sound Words
The Scriptures establish a pattern in words. Christ’s Spirit spoke in 2 Timothy 1:13 saying, “Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.” For which, Timothy is instructed to keep those things committed to him, which certainly included instructions regarding church government in 1 Timothy 3. In fact, no Apostolic teaching or practice can be excluded from “the pattern of sound words.” These sound words are essential, so that salvation depends on following the pattern.
In Romans 6:17–18, Paul expressed, “But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form [pattern] of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.” The word “form” is the Greek word tupos being a pattern and an example. What form of doctrine is this? This is none other than the death to sin, burial by baptism, and resurrection unto newness of life in Romans 6:4–6.
Conclusion
When believers consider Christ’s pattern of words regarding baptism, church government, marriage, church music, and the Lord’s Supper, do we consider His words to be perfect and complete? Is there a greater pattern or any higher pattern of words? Should we even think to alter and change that pattern of words? Can anyone find a better example in Christ and His pattern shown through the lives of His followers in the Scriptures? Pattern theology has a point. There is a pattern that Christians must follow and it is not the pattern of the world or the inventions of men and denominations. There are no greater examples than those found in the scriptures.
In conclusion, the Christian’s pattern is Christ, His life, and His words. Pattern theology must consist of our lives imitating Christ along with imitating His church that He built and bought with His blood.
The Breath of God 
It is virtuous to follow a pattern, but doing so only insures that the form is correct and gives no attention to the content of the believer. Anyone can follow a pattern without one drop of faith existing in them. The NT is one in which “newness” is to become the essence of the believer. A pattern follower is not necessarily new and when one puts their attention on following a pattern then a a “new creation” gets buried by the attention given to becoming a pattern follower. There is a place for pattern theology but not in the “new creation” that one becomes when Christ is formed in them. There are levels of Christianity and pattern theology is for the babe in Christ. When one dies into Christ the pattern is no longer needed because the pattern is written on the mind and heart of the “new creation.” It is essential that you understand this.
So you don’t believe in following Christ’s pattern and yet you claim to have the Spirit?
Love this post! Those you scratched the surface of pattern theology (I didn’t know it had a name. lol!) there is a LOT MORE pattern then this all over the Word of God!
Paul said that their was even a “pattern of teaching”:
“Hold fast the FORM [Gk: ‘typification under (after), i.e. a sketch (fig.) for imitation; FORM, PATTERN] OF SOUND [Gk: ‘to be UNCORRUPT (TRUE IN DOCTRINE):–wholesome’] [SPIRITUAL] WORDS [TEACHINGS, SAYINGS, DOCTRINE, INSTRUCTION], which thou hast heard of me [Paul by inspiration of the Holy Spirit], in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. That good thing [pattern of wholesome sound words or teachings of Christ] which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.” (2nd Timothy 1:13-14).
“In all things showing thyself A PATTERN [Gk: ‘(figuratively) style or resemblance; specifically a sampler (“type”), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning):–example, fashion, figure, FORM, manner, pattern, print’] of good works: [show yourself A PATTERN] IN [SPIRITUAL] DOCTRINE [WORDS, SAYINGS, TEACHING, INSTRUCTION] SHOWING UNCORRUPTNESS [Gk: ‘Not corruption, i.e. (figuratively) PURITY (OF DOCTRINE):–integrity’], gravity, sincerity, SOUND [Gk: ‘to be UNCORRUPT (TRUE IN DOCTRINE):–wholesome’] SPEECH, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.” (Titus 2:7-8).
Definition of Typification:
1. To serve as a typical example of; exemplify.
2. To serve as a symbol or emblem of; symbolize; prefigure, foreshadow.
3. To represent by type of symbol.
An Scriptural example of a typification or “patterns of sound words”:
“According to all that I [God] show thee [Moses], AFTER THE PATTERN of the tabernacle, and THE PATTERN of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. And look that thou make them AFTER THEIR PATTERN, which was showed thee in the mount.” (Exodus 25:9 & 40).
“NOW of the things which we have spoken [past tense] this is [now and for the future] the sum [principal thing, main point]: We have such an high priest [Jesus], who is [now] set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty [God the Father] in the heavens; [Jesus] A minister of the [spiritual] sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord [Jesus] pitched, and not man [not Moses, Aaron, or any minister]. For every high priest [of mankind] is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man [Jesus] have somewhat also to offer. For if He [Jesus] were on earth, He should not be a priest, seeing that there are [many ministers or] priests that offer gifts according to the law [of Moses]: [The priests or ministers] WHO SERVE [MINISTER] UNTO THE EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY [SPIRITUAL] THINGS [REALITIES], as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith He [God back in Exodus 25:9 & 40 the verses above], that thou [Moses who served as an example and foreshadow of the spiritual reality] MAKE ALL THINGS ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN showed to thee in the mount.” (Hebrews 8:1-5).
There are patterns that if you pull one from the Old Testament and the other from the New Testament you can see a more clearer picture. That’s what Jesus meant when He said,
“Then said He unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which brings forth out of his treasure, NEW AND OLD” (Matt. 13:52).
What “new and old” treasures do “scribes” preserve for us regarding the “kingdom of heaven?” Why the NEW Covenant Scriptures and the OLD Covenant Scriptures, of course. And both the Old (Deut. 17:6 & 19:15), and the New (2nd Corinthians 13:1 & Matt. 18:16) command that we must have two witnesses to establish every Word of God.
God bless and great post!
Thank you for the insightful and needed comment! Yes, I think the title of “Pattern Theology” got its foundation by those oppose it or parts of it. You are absolutely right the Scriptures are filled with patterns. These are so powerful in defining God’s commands for us. Examples define faith! God bless.
Amen! Christ bless and happy New year.
You ask, what are my doctrinal parameters for fellowship? I do my best to let the Word guide me in this manner. My best may be off at times and in such case I count on the mercy of God, not my intellectual wits. If we depend on our “smarts” or ability to get it all right, this often spawns an attitude of arrogance and pride.
No, I was not throwing slanderous insults. Please stop taking things personal, I mean you no harm. You seem very combative as if I’m your enemy. I do not know you and wouldn’t dare slander you in any way, shape, or form. However, I may offend you when I speak against some of the things you stand for, religiously speaking. If so, I’m sorry but I must state things how I know them. Take a deep breath and discuss things without accusations towards me. You do not know me and you strike with such arrogance and sharpness as if you have all understanding. I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but I’m sure you fall short in understanding lest you profess to have mastered the Holy Scriptures equally with God. If so, I wonder why Wayne Jackson and many others disagree with you over things in the written Word.
You ask, “Do you believe that Christ’s Church can observe all things that He commanded?”
Yes, I do believe that the Church of God should observe all things that He has commanded. However, I do not see this within Churches today ( including the church of Christ ) and my guess is because we are not robots who all think alike. And, at times, what we say is a command of Christ is merely an assumption we draw from inference. There is a big difference in the Commands of Jesus and what you and I infer/assume. I have no right to “bind” certain examples on brethren which I have drawn a conclusion from inference.
Again, the church of Christ ( the conservatives ) do not agree doctrinally on MDR. Tell you what, I will name some leading men in the conservative church of Christ and you tell me which are saved. Then I will reveal what each teach on MDR. Then we can discuss this issue of patterns ;)
Btw, I wasn’t referencing anything about Guy or Gus in regards to the Holy Spirit. However, have you searched what Guy N Woods teaches on MDR vs. other conservative brethren?
I do, however, find it interesting that you throw the role of the Holy Spirit in the “matters of opinion” file yet in regards to musical instruments in worship you will deem that as a “matter of faith.” Who makes these rules, sir? How do you obtain the right to say what is a matter of opinion or matter of faith? I contend that the role of the Holy Spirit is very much a doctrinal matter yet you water it down to a mere opinionated matter while you lift up musical instruments in worship to a status above the Holy Spirit’s role – very interesting. See, if you admit that the role of the Holy Spirit is a doctrinal matter, this creates a major problem, doesn’t it? The ONLY reason it’s not called doctrinal is because you guys cannot agree on this. So, to make the claim, “we speak where the Bible speaks”, this is treated as a simple matter of opinion.
Wayne Jackson and his son both disagree with you far as you limiting the role of the Holy Spirit to ONLY indwelling by the Word as do many others. So, to ‘keep the unity’ this is called a “matter of opinion.” I find your hermeneutical gymnastics to be laced with hypocritical strings and merely a loop-hole to convince others that the church of Christ “speak the same things.” Any honest student or scholar can see through this circus of chaos. Please do not be offended but this is folly above all folly. If you’re going to make rules then at least be consistent. If not, it only discredits the teaching you profess to be truth. You cannot call the role of the Holy Spirit non-doctrinal then turn around and say musical instruments in worship is doctrinal. This is a hypocritical double-standard. Again, who makes these rules? Who gives you the right to call the role of the Holy Spirit a non-issue? If you have such privilege I can come along and say musical instruments in worship is a non-issue as the progressive have. If you have this right, so do I. If not, show me in the Holy Scriptures that you can pick and choose that which you deem non-doctrinal yet I cannot. Since you “without” authority can count the role of the Holy Spirit as a “matter of opinion”, then I will exercise this right and say musical instruments in worship is a “matter of opinion.”
Do you consider MDR ( marriage, divorce, remarriage ) a doctrinal matter? Should the conservative church of Christ be on the same page on this? If not, does this mean some are lost? Before you answer, I truly recommend that you do more homework on this matter. There are many books written by “top leaders” within the conservative church of Christ. Guess what? They disagree on MDR yet they all remain in fellowship. These double-standards, are at best, hypocritical. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Sorry for the lengthy comment.
I didn’t say I didn’t know they are referred as progressives. I know many progressives, moderates, conservatives, and hyper-conservative cofC. I was making light of you calling them progressives.
Again, I know there is doctrinal disagreement within the conservative cofC. You stated you have traveled the US yet you seem in the dark regarding the many sects within the conservative cofC.
If the conservatives do not agree doctrinally on MDR, in your opinion, is this a matter of faith? I am certain you know how we divide things – “matters of opinion and matters of faith”…
Are you aware of conservative brethren who doctrinally disagree? If so, are they all your brothers? If you are not aware of this, my sincere apologies.
First of all, you are prejudice if you put together the mainstream with the non-institutional churches. It is the small minority of non-institutional churches, who are divided, that you oppose. Yet, the churches of Christ are not divided being built by Christ, bought by His blood, and guided by His words. This is a progressive;s position that you have taken to misrepresent the churches of Christ. Only to progressives is a few churches differing among 10,000 appalling.
Listen the truth is in Christ. You cannot look or turn somewhere else but to His words (John 6:63, 16:12-13, 17:8). Christ came to build His Church (Matt. 16:18). Yet, your antagonism is for what and to what? Are you saying that Christ did build His Church and that it has not prevailed? Why speak in ignorance and in skepticism when you can do some good and teach the Truth of God’s word? Why slander and ask presumptuous questions? Is it because you do not agree that Christ taught the specifics of God’s institution of marriage by the Creation and these specifics exclude alterations? The evil lies in the heart of those oppose with giving Christ.
Scott, I am not mingling the mainstream with the non-institutional churches and surely not prejudice in this regard. But, since you bring this up, is everyone in the mainstream and non-institutional churches your brethren? If not, which doctrines within these parameters cause one not to be your brother?
I am not siding with the progressive Church of Christ or any particular group per say as you alleged. My point has nothing do to with progressive positions. My point is, the conservative church of Christ are divided in regards to the so-called pattern – surely you know this. Even among hard-liner conservatives, there is division over particulars of “the pattern.” I’m really shocked you are in the dark on this. My guess is, you have only fellow-shipped with the particular “sect” you are affiliated thus have no idea what other conservative church of Christ teach on marriage, divorce, and remarriage. If you are offended by the term “sect”, do forgive me. I don’t know any other way to describe the division within the conservative church of Christ.
I had some difficulty following your last paragraph but will attempt to address it best I can. I’m in agreement in regards to Jesus building His Church. However, if you’re suggesting that the “your” particular church of Christ is the ONLY true Church, then I have issues with your position.
The Lord’s Church is made of people with various opinions, even disagreements over doctrinal matters. I know this cuts against the conservative grain but it’s true lest you profess to have everything figured out written in God’s Word and everyone agrees with every position you hold. A new born Christian surely lacks your insight, is he your brother although he has not reached your supposed understanding of doctrinal matters. What if he disagrees with you on a doctrinal matter, is he ( the new babe in Christ ) still your brother?
Your position demands perfection in regards to doctrine and practice – any honest individual knows everyone has not reached such a place. Some are on the milk of God’s word and some on meat, meaning we are on different levels of understanding. Do you accept “others” as your brother despite doctrinal differences? If not, at what point do you demand one understand and agree with your supposed knowledge?
I’m sorry you consider me “ignorant” and a “skeptic” although I’m not sure why you are so fast to deem me as such. Nonetheless, I will forgive your slanderous and presumptuous opinion of me.
I also never stated my opinion on MDR. I merely stated that the church of Christ ( the conservatives ) disagree on marriage, divorce, and remarriage; this can be found in various writings e.g., books, articles, authorized by various conservative church of Christ “leaders.” My impression is that you are in the dark on this.
There is also division within the conservative church of Christ over the role of the Holy Spirit. Some conservatives like Wayne Jackson contend that the Spirit literally indwells the Saints of God whereas some contend that the Spirit indwells only through the written Word. Regardless how one cuts this, it is a doctrinal matter, not a matter of opinion.
To sum things up, the conservative church of Christ do not agree upon the particulars of the so-called pattern. I realize you desire this to be true but it’s not my friend. Perhaps you are sincerely in the dark on these matters. If so, accept my apology.
I will answer your question when you’ve answered mine. Let’s make it easy. What are your doctrinal parameters for fellowship?
It is ironic that those opposing sectarianism are called a sect for not participating in sectarianism.
Your question regarding fellowship with immature brethren is self-righteous slanderous insult. From the 1st c. to the 21st c., we’ve always welcomed everyone to study the life and teachings of Christ. Christ called most of the churches of Asia to repent (Rev. 2-3) and so His Spirit did through Paul to the Church in Corinth (1 Cor.). These were still saved though in error, but those erring and certainly their leaders were warned that they would not be saved if they did not repent.
There always needed to be more teaching for growth (Matt. 28:20). Yet, it escapes you that follow commands that define the principles of Christian virtues and ultimately love. Our perfection in following Christ has always been in Him making us perfect/complete (Col. 1:19-23). Our perfection is Christ and it only consists of us walking in the light by which we remain in His grace (1 John 1:7). See, we believe Jesus when He said that we are to and we can observe all things that He has commanded (Matt. 28:20). Do you believe that Christ’s Church can observe all things that He commanded? You don’t sound like you agree with Jesus about this and that is especially true if you are saying we can differ on doctrine according to our opinions.
“See, we believe Jesus when He said that we are to and we can observe all things that He has commanded (Matt. 28:20). Do you believe that Christ’s Church can observe all things that He commanded?”
WHOA. That is a BOLD-FACED LIE. Jesus taught observance of the Torah, and you have made it clear that you prefer to choose the words of PAUL rather than the words of the Messiah.
This is half the problem with Christians…YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
There is no division in the TRUE path. It is what it is. Christianity is a large machine with many opposing parts. My Father does not author confusion…yet that is what Christendom is. You are more concerned with dogma and doctrine than truth. You are more concerned with tradition and what theologians say that what the Saviour says.
My work is done here. I have given you truth and you reject it. Your addiction and loyalty to Paul will guide you to destruction unless you open your eyes and choose truth over pride. Sadly most christians are too brainwashed to step back and look at their faith with fresh eyes.
The Torah is Life. May the Father open your eyes without force…lest you face the additional test of love…one that tests your loyalty against suffering.
As you admit, you have no confidence in authoritative sources for Christ’s life and teachings, and you can defend your own beliefs.
I have confidence in the Father, and that is all I need. You have confidence in man, in Paul….but you have no confidence in Yah Himself.
I also like how you avoided my point….that you claim to follow and adhere to the teachings of Jesus, yet that is false, as Jesus taught us to OBEY….
What do you obey according to Jesus exactly?
If you are not mingling, then what are the doctrinal differences. You only mention the difference between the Spirit’s indwelling, and are united in the Spirit’s work. As far as I’m concerned, both Woods’ position and Nichols’ position are both right, but differ in opinion. This is neither a matter of practice nor a matter doctrine. How the Spirit dwells in us or how our spirit dwells in us is a matter of the working of God. Unless I’m forgetting a scripture that teaches how a spirit dwells, then this is a matter of opinion and not matter of following Christ. When one differs in following Christ, then we part ways with those who part from Christ. Christ said that His words are spirit (John 6:63). The Spirit’s indwelling is literally by Christ’s words, which are spirit. Yet, we are all washed, sanctified, and justified by the Spirit no matter our opinion on how spirits indwell (1 Cor. 6:11).
Sir, I appreciate your comments; however, I respectfully disagree with some of what you have written. My point was, there are doctrinal disagreements within the conservative church of Christ. I wasn’t referring to the liberal Church of Christ, as you call progressives.
Perhaps, as time permits, I will present names of well-known conservative brethren who disagree doctrinally on MDR and such. For now, I will reserve their names, but for verification/authentication purposes, I may have no choice but list them at some point.
I searched long and hard for a title for my site and everything seems taken. I must confess, I like the title I have now because it states upfront where I am coming from. Regarding the old site and “sock puppetry”, I really don’t have any issues with such. Many people choice to remain anonymous online, even use names not tied to them.
Please do not take my comments as unfriendly. I will be VERY direct with my opinions and what I believe, and in the process may step on some toes.
They call themselves “progressives”. I was being respectful since they don’t like being called “liberal”. Strange, that you say that you are familiar with the churches of Christ and do not know this.
You have people posing as strawmen to slander the other position and then making themselves into multiple witnesses. That’s dishonest. I will not presume that you have anything to do with him.
Sir, I know factually that the church of Christ do not follow the same pattern. Have you ventured outside of your City? Perhaps you should discuss how inconsistently you guys follow MDR. You know as do I that the church of Christ are not in agreement regarding remarriage and divorce. I also know brethren who do not practice the Lord’s Supper the same. However, I find your site interesting and will read more as time permits. Have a blessed night.
I’ve been all over US. you cannot attribute error to inconsistency according a congregation’s name on its sign,which it has given itself, or think inconsistent for an autonomous congregation to use such a name and yet differ from the churches of Christ as described in the scriptures. For instance, less than two miles from our building is the “Jacksonville church of Christ”, who are not associated with the churches of Christ. Rather it is a part of the “international” churches who have practiced the shepherding hierarchy for every member up. This congregation also has instrumental music. Also, there is a congregation within a few miles called “Christ’s Church”. That’s a good name, yet they are the Christian church. As for divorce and remarriage, there are a few who claim to be “progressive” who do not associate with us, because of differing positions on this matter. These barely retain any members from the Church of Christ of whom they once associated before following another teaching than Christ’s. Yet, as you would admit, this does not change the churches of Christ from being the Church found in the scriptures, which Christ built and bought with His blood. We can call ourselves “Christians” and not be Christians, and congregations can say that they are “of Christ” and yet not be of Christ. This is who we strive to be. You would also note that the churches of Christ in the 1st c. were corrected for erring in doctrines and practices. Those congregations did differ and were taught better and instructed to repent (cf. 1 & 2 Cor.).
Be careful with your website’s title. The other one like yours was confronted by another writer here for “sock puppetry” faking aliases with the same ip address, and if you are sincere for which I have no prejudice to believe that you are not, make sure that others do not consider you the same since “answeringthechurchesofChrist” was noted for this.
Always open to discussion and to honestly consider your points. As you know, the churches of Christ are autonomous and there is no reason direct any unfriendly or antagonism toward all congregations alike.
“We can call ourselves “Christians” and not be Christians, and congregations can say that they are “of Christ” and yet not be of Christ.”
That covers almost all Christians. The Father’s truth is clear…there is no confusion, only denial and pride. Paul is the father of confusion.
The Torah is Life.
Where’s your authority for limiting the collection of the scriptures? Where is your authority for rejecting the words of the gospel of Luke, which cover Christ’s last year of life in journey to Jerusalem for His death and resurrection? Btw, what scripture do you refer to for “Torah is life”?
1. Where is the authority of those who comprised the bible? My Father never mentioned a bible…and I do not see how anyone who claims to know Yah would trust the pagan-compromising leaders in the “church” who worked with the government to bring about a collection of what THEY considered inspired, leaving out books that even the messiah quoted…and did so trying to make it easier to convert to christianity.. No sir..they have no authority..
2. I do not reject the whole of the gospel of Luke…and believe that since he is one of the twelve pillars, he must have determined the fault in Paul at some point. That’s IF it were actually written by the same luke.
3. The statement “the torah is life” is merely a broad statement that sums up the entirety of what both Yahweh and Yahushua tried and continues to try to teach us for thousands of years..
Who told you that the Catholic/Orthodox church put the Bible together with the government (Emperor Constantine)? Is there any history for this? No. Do you have two or more witnesses proving this? No. Again, you have no authority for your beliefs. These things are just made up and invented by men to suit certain opinions. This false teaching is promoted from Mormons to secular philosophers to charismatic churches and throughout the denominational hierarchies. You have accepted their word for it without proof, and you have rejected that Jesus said that His words would never pass away (Luke 21:33, Mark 13:31, Matt. 24:35). [https://godsbreath.wordpress.com/2007/05/03/how-the-new-testament-was-collected/]
No authority is the whole problem from the beginning. You still have no authority for what scriptures that you accept. Yet, you accept parts of Luke. Which parts and how do you determine what you accept? You address Luke in bias skepticism with no reason to do so. You know the affirmations of Luke among the manuscripts. There is nothing before the 4th c. even suggesting corruption of the text. Your problem is with Luke who worked with Paul and wrote Acts. Why is your heart so hard against Paul when you agree with him in how the Law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ? You accept that the sacrifices and the temple services have ceased, but you simply want to hold on to the seventh day. I wonder if you will keep the seventh year and high sabbaths for the feast of trumpets, the day of atonement, and the feast of tabernacles (Lev. 23, 25). For you, this is all for the seventh day and nothing more. Yet, you do not recognize what Hebrews 4:9 says about the sabbath being with God in heaven in His rest.
1. I know very little about Mormons or their history, or what they claim as history for the bible or the church..soo…mmk..
2. The history of the Bible is what it is. I don’t have to speculate or make anything up, nor do I address it with bias. It is what it is. The fact that it was compromised with Pagan traditions and beliefs is crystal clear..
3. What is your deal with Luke? I never mentioned him until you asked.. But anyway, jump back to the past and think about it for a minute. Paul had extraordinary claims regarding Jesus. It makes sense that Luke may have accepted his testimony at first. But as time progressed, and Paul’s intent became clear, I can see how one of the TWELVE Pillars would see through his mask and learn the truth. As even the Messiah said that the very elect may be deceived. And so Luke obviously was for a moment….but it is clear that he learned the truth, as he was never replaced as a Disciple. For the record, Acts in no way justifies Paul. Quite the opposite.
4. The sacrifices for sin as dictated in the Torah were not done away with. We were simply given a lamb, much like Abraham, to stand in it’s place. However, as I mentioned, if you are not under the Torah, then His sacrifice is irrelevant.
You fail to grasp that I spent 30+ years as a dedicated “Christian”. I grew up in a church where my parents were elders and deacons, and my mother was/is the Principle of a christian school. I understand fully where you stand and why.
Also, I am not claiming to be perfect at observing the Torah….or even to know how to fully as of yet. I am just learning all of this. But I make no excuse. God set it in place and it is eternal, so I only have my own 30+ years of blindness to fault.
So you can go ahead and question whether or not I am doing this or that, or following this or that tenet…makes no difference to me. I believe the Word of the Father and the Son….and that is the difference between you and I.
Lastly:
“You have accepted their word for it without proof, and you have rejected that Jesus said that His words would never pass away ”
You are right….but you better go back and read His words, because they claim exactly what I have been telling you.
Interesting…Jesus followed the Torah, yet 99.9% of Christians believe the Torah to be done away with, thanks to Paul…So the ‘pattern’ that Jesus set..the ‘example’…is only subject to what we choose to believe? Among other twisted things, you quote Paul saying “Imitate me..”..
Why didn’t he just say to imitate Jesus? Most likely because Paul himself did not imitate Jesus.
It’s time for the church to wake up before it’s too late.
The question is, which pattern do we adhere to? Mark 16:18 says that those that believe shall drink any deadly thing and it shall not hurt them. Pattern up!
This is where studying Rightly Divided will help uncover which pattern is for us, today, and which pattern was for Israel in time past and in time future.
Jesus said, “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come” (John 16:13).