Some see nothing wrong with drunkenness and others believe all drinking is sinful. Some make grand defenses of drinking in moderation more so than they have ever done in proclaiming Jesus Christ. Others find that there is not one positive statement about drinking alcohol in the Bible frustrating those advocating for moderation. Those warning against drinking are apparently concerned for those contending for moderate drinking. With all honesty, Christians can and must warn about looking and lingering over alcohol (Prov 23:31–35).
Moderate Drinking
How should the advocate for moderate drinking respond? Those advocating moderate drinking observe: Did not the high priest Melchizedek honor Abraham with bread and wine (Gen 14:18)? Why does God tell the Israelites to drink wine and strong cider while rejoicing before the LORD (Deut 14:26; cf. Isa 55:1; Amos 9:14)? Why does Psalm 104:15 approve of wine that causes one to be glad? Why does God command drink offerings of wine (Num 15:5-10)? Why does Proverbs 31 recommend drinking to treat misery (v6–7)? Why would anyone overlook these references to wine unless they are bias and somewhat legalistic? Did not Jesus turn water to wine (John 2:1–11)? Did not the apostle Paul encourage a little wine for stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23)? Are not deacons and women told to not become addicted to much wine implying moderation (1 Tim 3:8; Titus 2:3)?
Reconsider Alcohol and the Bible
From this perspective, many perceive a place for moderate drinking of alcohol. However, “The first one to plead his cause seems right, Until his neighbor comes and examines him” (Prov 18:17). The whole case for advocating moderate drinking stands or falls by the definition of biblical wine.
Those who proclaim that there is not one positive statement about drinking in the Bible perceive that none of these previous passages about “wine” are certain references to alcoholic wine.
The Definition of Biblical Wine
What is biblical wine? Most assume that the word “wine” in the Bible is highly alcoholic and intoxicating. There are passages that clearly imply that the references to “wine” in the Bible can be either alcoholic or non-alcoholic (Eph 5:18; 1 Tim 3:8; Titus 2:3). Biblical “wine” is often simply grape juice without alcohol. There are examples of this. Note the passages and references to non-alcoholic wine throughout the Bible:
- “Wine” is the blood of the grape (Gen 49:11–12, Heb yayin, Deut 32:14, Heb chemer).
- The vineyard consists of “red wine” (Isa 27:2, Heb chemer).
- “Wine” is grape juice from the grapes of the field (Deut 11:14, 2 Chr 31:5, Heb tirosh, Jer 40:10, 12, Heb yayin).
- “Wine” is in the grape (Isa 65:8, Heb. tirosh).
- “Wine” is the grape juice of the wine-press (Prov 3:10, Heb tirosh, Isa 16:10, Jer 48:33, Heb yayin).
The numerous scriptures referencing “wine” do not appear to refer with certainty to alcoholic wine. All of the claims of the alcoholic wine and God permitting its use do not stand on plausible instances but on prima facie. The position appears true that there is not one positive statement about alcoholic wine or any such drink in the Scriptures.
Levels of Alcohol in Wine
Furthermore, alcoholic wine in Biblical times lacked in alcoholic content compared to today’s wine. The sugar of grape juice could only ferment with wild yeast up to 4% alcohol. Yeast was added for grape juice to exceed 4% alcohol. The yeast added to ancient wines produced between 5–10% alcohol. Alcohol killed yeast cells and prevented alcoholic content over 10% in biblical times. Modern fermentation has allowed for higher levels of alcohol Winemaker Magazine, UC Davis, International Biblical Encyclopedia, “Bible Study Guide,” “Alcohol in the Church,” Bible Wine).
Wines today average 12–18% alcohol due to recent modern fermentation. The word “wine” in the Bible was grape juice that may or not refer to intoxicating wine as high as 10% alcohol. The simple use of the word “wine” has become the means for many to try to justify their actions in excessive drinking and drunkenness. The negative references against wine in the Bible are clearly opposing alcoholic wine while the positive references to wine are referring to unfermented juice from grapes.
Warnings about Drinking
What are those scriptures that warn against drinking alcohol? The Scriptures warn, “Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,” (Isa 5:22, cf. Isa 5:11–12, 56:12). Proverb 20:1 states, “Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise.” Consider the warning in Proverb 23:31–35,
Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things. Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying: “They have struck me, but I was not hurt; They have beaten me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?”
Should Christians warn the same today? Christians are instructed to not walk in drunkenness, which the Greek word for “drunkenness” literally means “filling” oneself with alcohol (Rom 13:13–14). First Corinthians 6:10 blatantly reveals that drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19–21 teaches that “drunkenness” and other intoxicating drugs are a “work of the flesh” and “those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gr. pharmakeia for “sorcery”).
The Scriptures teach even more than that. First Peter 4:3 states, “For the time that is past suffices for doing what the nations want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness [vain use of wine], wild parties, drinking parties [drinkings], and lawless idolatry.” This word for “drunkenness” is not the usual word for drunkenness in Greek, but it is oinophlugia made of two words oinos wine and phlugia doing something idly and in vain. Also, the reference here to drinking parties is from the word potois, which denotes events for drinking. God commands against being a part of occasions where the purpose of the gathering is to drink. Christians must be sober and not drunk in any way. Christians cannot be a part of occasions for drinking. Being present is a sin even if you do not drink.
Christian Sobriety
Sobriety is repeatedly taught in the Scriptures. The Spirit of Christ says in 1 Thessalonians 5:6–8,
So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.
Notice the contrast in the previous verse between sober and drunk. The word for sober is neipho, which means to be self-controlled. Since Christians are to be sober at all times, then they will not drink intoxicants that will impair their judgment.
Biblical Examples of Drunkenness
The Bible tells and warns of sins and abuses also often associated with filling oneself with alcohol. Drunkenness weakens one’s state of mind to be abused. The Bible presents the preacher that got drunk, Noah. Genesis 9:20–21 says, “And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent.” Then Ham came in and saw his nakedness. Lot’s daughters got him drunk to lie with him (Gen 19:32). Habakkuk 2:15 says, “Woe to him who gives drink to his neighbor, Pressing him to your bottle, Even to make him drunk, That you may look on his nakedness!” Apparently, the Scriptures warn against disturbed individuals waiting on others to get drunk and pushing others to drink, so that they can satisfy their own lusts against others. What are we to do with these warnings? These Scriptures clearly warn against alcohol and drunkenness.
Jesus, Wine, and the Wedding
Did not Jesus make and drink intoxicating wine? This is often referred to justify excessive drinking and even drunkenness. Many believe that Jesus turned water into intoxicating wine at the wedding in Cana (John 2). First, one has to assert this with bias since “wine” [oinos] was grape juice and may or may not have fermented. Some assert that Jesus aided a wedding by turning the party into a drinking party, which Christ’s Spirit condemned by Peter (1 Pet 4:3). One would have to understand the wedding to have run out of a lot of supposed intoxicating wine, and then when Jesus made 6 containers of 20–30 gallons each totaling between 120 to 180 gallons of supposedly intoxicating wine. If readers assume that this wine was fermented and there were 480 people at this wedding, then each one would now be able to receive another quart of fermented wine, and if there were 960 people, then they would each be able to have another pint. Is half a pint any better for 1,920 people who are already full of supposed intoxicating wine?
John recorded the reference that these “have well drunk” (John 2:10), which this is the same Greek word meaning filled (1 Cor 11:21; cf. “drunkenness”; Rom 13:13; 1 Cor 5:11; 6:10; Gal 5:21; Eph 5:18). Either the wedding guests were being filled with grape juice or getting drunk on wine. Therefore, either all these people were already drunk if the wine is intoxicating and Jesus made more alcohol, or they were all filled with grape juice and now Jesus had made even better grape juice. Those asserting that Jesus made intoxicating wine are implying that Jesus would have intoxicated these people, encouraged a drinking party, excessive drinking, and drunkenness. That is an absurd notion to think Jesus encouraged sin by making alcoholic wine. In Wayne Jackson’s article, “What about Moderate Social Drinking?,”
There is no proof that the “wine” at the marriage feast in Cana was fermented. The Greek word for ‘wine’ in this text is oinos, which may refer to a fermented beverage (cf. Eph. 5:18), or it may denote freshly squeezed grape juice (cf. Isa. 16:10 – LXX). Since the word for ‘wine’ is generic, the student has no right to import the concept of an alcoholic beverage into this passage without contextual justification — of which there is none.
To assume that Jesus made intoxicating drinks is to assume that after everyone had drunk all the other intoxicating wine, then they needed more of the best intoxicating wine and Jesus was the man to do it.
Jesus, Wine, and the Lord’s Supper
Many denominations have wine as a part of the “Eucharist,” the Lord’s Supper. Did Jesus use wine in the Lord’s Supper? No, He did not. The word “wine” is never used in reference to the Lord’s Supper. People have invented the idea that Jesus used wine in the Lord’s Supper. Jesus mentioned the specific content of the cup to drink is “fruit of the grapevine.” Add to all of this, Jesus used unleavened bread because it was the time of the Passover when all leaven was thrown out (Exod 12:15, 19; 13:7). This also included the removal of fermented wine. In fact, this “fruit of the grapevine” must have also been unleavened limiting any possible fermentation to be between 0–4%. If one asserted this “wine” to be 4% alcohol, then this would be useless to drinkers since gallons would have to be drunk to intake enough to intoxicate, but even then the wine would be so deluded and quickly released from the body.
Favorable Uses of Alcohol
Do the Scriptures permit any use of alcohol? One of the reasons proposed for moderate drinking of alcohol is that deacons and women were instructed to be “not given to much wine” (1 Tim 3:8; Titus 2:3). The Greek word for “given to” is prosecho, which is translated in the American Standard and New American Standard as “addicted,” and so the phrase is translated “not addicted to much wine.” Truly, Paul was not permitting that one be addicted to a moderate amount of wine. Furthermore, the immediate context of 1 Timothy 3 where church elders are not to be given to wine from the Greek paroinos, which literally means to be “beside wine” (1 Tim 3:3). Christians are to follow the examples of their church pastors, the elders (1 Pet 5:3). The wives of these elders and deacons are also told to be sober (1 Tim 3:11; cf. 1 Thess 5:6–8). The moderate use of alcoholic wine is not being permitted in 1 Timothy 3:8 or Titus 2:3.
The Health Benefits of Wine in the Bible
Is wine ever prescribed medicinally? “Wine” is grape juice whether fermented or not, and it has its health benefits without alcohol and as vinegar. However, many assume that the prescription of Paul to Timothy to “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments” must be intoxicating wine (1 Tim 5:23). Vinegar is still a prescription for stomach ailments today. Also, a common practice of the time was to purify water with wine and, or vinegar. If this “wine” consisted of alcohol, it would have been deluded with water. Furthermore, Timothy was not drinking “wine” until encouraged by Paul.
Another “prescription” often referred to is from Proverb 31:6–7, “Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.” This is certainly not casual drinking, but medicinal for those in “bitter distress” even “perishing.” Some would even suggest these verses are sarcastic within context. The context makes it clear that this proverb is not condoning casual drinking either. The verses before that prohibit drinking. Proverb 31:4–5, “It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine, or for rulers to take strong drink, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed and pervert the rights of all the afflicted.” Again, casual drinking is not being permitted here.
A Final Warning about Alcohol
The Bible does not encourage or permit the use of alcohol. Isaiah exposed the priests and prophets of Israel who became drunks (Isa 28:7). Although, they were not to partake of wine in the service of God (Lev 10:9; Ezek 44:21; Jer 35). Even today, preachers and teachers consent to strong drink using prima facie arguments. However, church leaders must remain aware and not become addicted to wine (1 Tim 3:3). Strong drink and intoxicating wine does not have a positive position in the Scriptures. The Bible does not advocate or permit the drinking of alcoholic wine or any intoxicant. Ethyl alcohol is a toxin and a poison, and has no place in destroying our minds, ruining our self-control, and destroying bodies (1 Cor 6:19–20). Alcohol is a deceptive mocker. Solomon wrote, “Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it swirls around smoothly; At the last it bites like a serpent, And stings like a viper. Your eyes will see strange things, And your heart will utter perverse things” (Prov 23:31–33).
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Addendum:
The CDC’s “Alcohol and Public Health” FAQs states,
“What is a standard drink in the United States?
A standard drink is equal to 14.0 grams (0.6 ounces) of pure alcohol. Generally, this amount of pure alcohol is found in
- 12-ounces of beer.
- 8-ounces of malt liquor.
- 5-ounces of wine.
- 1.5-ounces or a ‘shot’ of 80-proof distilled spirits or liquor (e.g., gin, rum, vodka, or whiskey). […]
How does alcohol affect a person?
Alcohol affects every organ in the body. It is a central nervous system depressant that is rapidly absorbed from the stomach and small intestine into the bloodstream. Alcohol is metabolized in the liver by enzymes; however, the liver can only metabolize a small amount of alcohol at a time, leaving the excess alcohol to circulate throughout the body. The intensity of the effect of alcohol on the body is directly related to the amount consumed. […]
What does moderate drinking mean?
There is no one definition of moderate drinking, but generally the term is used to describe a lower-risk pattern of drinking. According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, drinking in moderation is defined as having up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men. This definition is referring to the amount consumed on any single day and is not intended as an average over several days.
Is it safe to drink alcohol and drive?
No. Alcohol use slows reaction time and impairs judgment and coordination, which are all skills needed to drive a car safely. The more alcohol consumed, the greater the impairment. […]
According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, it is not recommended that anyone begin drinking or drink more frequently on the basis of potential health benefits because moderate alcohol intake also is associated with increased risk of breast cancer, violence, drowning, and injuries from falls and motor vehicle crashes.
What do you mean by heavy drinking?
For men, heavy drinking is typically defined as consuming an average of more than 2 drinks per day. For women, heavy drinking is typically defined as consuming an average of more than 1 drink per day.
What is binge drinking?
According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism binge drinking is defined as a pattern of alcohol consumption that brings the blood alcohol concentration (BAC) level to 0.08% or more. This pattern of drinking usually corresponds to 5 or more drinks on a single occasion for men or 4 or more drinks on a single occasion for women, generally within about 2 hours. […]
What health problems are associated with excessive alcohol use?
Excessive drinking both in the form of heavy drinking or binge drinking, is associated with numerous health problems, including—
- Chronic diseases such as liver cirrhosis (damage to liver cells); pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas); various cancers, including liver, mouth, throat, larynx (the voice box), and esophagus; high blood pressure; and psychological disorders.
- Unintentional injuries, such as motor-vehicle traffic crashes, falls, drowning, burns and firearm injuries.
- Violence, such as child maltreatment, homicide, and suicide.
- Harm to a developing fetus if a woman drinks while pregnant, such as fetal alcohol spectrum disorders.
- Sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).
- Alcohol abuse or dependence.”
(“Alcohol and Public Health: FAQs.” Center for Disease Control and Prevention. 28 Sept. 2012. Updated 6 Feb. 2014.).
The Breath of God 
This is what I found to be true, “Drunkenness is a sin. Intoxication is a sin. How drunk can a Christian get? A Christian cannot get drunk or intoxicated even a little.”
Are you are back to preaching what you earlier agreed you could not determine as true, Scott? How do you reconcile 1 Tim 3:8 and Titus 2:3 with “even a little”? Obviously, to an honest reader, Paul’s admonition is not against drinking wine, but drinking too much. So, it follows that the condition Paul poses would be pointless if absolute abstinence were commanded.
When did I speak of absolute abstinence or that all drinking was evil? “Given to much wine” would be to be intoxicated in some form.
Remember our kinder words and conclusion. Before I stated, “I never said drinking was a sin. I said vain drinking was a sin, because of 1 Peter 4:3. I did not say that wine was not intoxicating, but that it may not be since it is generally grape juice.”
The Greek oinophlugia either means wine-bubbling (wine in excess) and, or wine-idle (vain drinking).
Thank you for that reminder, Scott, and I don’t mean to harp on you, but I guess I am just perplexed as to why you added this little addendum when the issue was previously settled. It begs the question, “How do you determine what “even a little” intoxicated is?”
It is practically impossible to not be affected by wine, so when is it too much? The Bible makes clear that people knew what having a heart made “glad with wine” was. And God even promotes it here (Deut 14:23-26), Solomon, while teaching of the dangers of overindulgence, says “Go, eat your bread with joy, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do.” (Ecclesiastes 9:7)
God removes the ban of wine drinking once a Nazarite has fulfilled his vow (Numbers 6:20), drink offerings are always of wine, and the Psalmist rejoices in the “wine to gladden the heart of man” (Psalm 104:15).
Then, what do we do with Solomon’s admonition to, “Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.” (Proverbs 31:6-7). And this is from the same wise man who says “wine is a mocker”, etc. It is all about moderation, but you make no definition of what that entails.
How do we determine a little intoxication or what is moderation? I think we are saying the same thing from different angles.
Remember to keep Proverb 31:6-7 in context of verse 4-5, so yes “moderation”. Yet, I hear “moderation” and hear a middle ground of someone who is partially drunk as you hear me saying that a “little” may be a few sips to be partially drunk. I just don’t know. I do know that the Greek word for drunkenness is rooted in being filled as in John 2:10 and paralleled in Eph. 5:18.
I recently linked this article and did not want to leave the last comment open-ended.
I understand now why you “woke this up”! Thanks for your forbearance.
In any case, I certainly never want to be guilty of promoting drunkenness or “partying”, but I just cringe when I see some use very broad strokes to determine what is and is not acceptable to God.
That said, am I right to assume you would not reprimand or dis-fellowship someone in your congregation simply for having a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant or at home (provided, of course, that their behavior remained above reproach)?
First I would like to point out that I am not judging you. I am in no way condemning you but I am trying to point out some mistakes in your statements. I was pertaining my statements to the ones that you have said.
“Evidently, you have problem interpreting [being honest]. You read into certain statements for the purpose of judging me. ”
You do seem to be the one that does have a problem with interpreting as you have not read the posting that you have posted and then mine in like.
“(1st) You conclude that taking cough syrup is getting drunk.
I did not say that taking cough syrup is getting drunk. I was refering to your statement;
“How drunk can a Christian get? A Christian cannot get drunk or intoxicated even a little.”
Different people have different tolerances. Some people are able to handle a large amount of alcohol without getting drunk in the least. There are also those that cannot handle any amount without getting drunk. You stated that
“it is a sin to be intoxicated even if it is just a little.”
I stated that cough syrup contains alcohol and consuming even a little is taking that alcohol into your system would intoxicate your system a little. You did not indicate a volume of alcohol that it would take to make a person drunk but you did condemn all as if they were the same. You did say
“That swallowing little alcohol is a sin.”
For that matter, you would be condemning certain drugs and using mouthwash.
This was not my saying but yours.
This is your conclusion and not mine.
“(2nd) The Spirit of Christ condemned gatherings focused on drinking not me.
And yet your whole message here is about condemning drinking.
YOU: Where drinking “can occur” meaning there is alcohol there and provided, because the event was purposed in part or whole for drinking.
You did not state this before. You only said where drinking can occur.
You said: This may include more than bars such as athletic events and house parties. Christians must be sober and not be drunk in any way. Christians cannot be a part of occasions for drinking. Just being present is a sin.
I do agree with the statement that Christians must be sober. I just don’t agree with the part about house parties or athletic events or anywhere a person might be. I am a musical performer and I do not drink and if I had my way I would raise the drinking age to at least 25. I think that if a person was caught drinking and driving that they should have a year in jail with a huge fine and lose their license permanently. There is just no cause for drinking and driving. Alcohol in my opinion is one of the main downfalls that we all face. People lose their self control on many levels. But as I was saying, I am a musician and I am in many places where drinking can occur. I am not sinning for the faults of others that are out of my control. I am doing my job. There are plenty of people that enjoy my music that do not drink and that would include children that for the life of me, I have never seen holding a beer. As for me having a guilty conscience, I have stated that I do not drink and I have not had a drink almost 30 years. What does get me going is the fact that some people state opinions as facts. Some people read into scripture more than is written. Some people will try to convince others of their own beliefs and opinions based upon nothing more than their own ideals. This to you might even agree with as we all have seen those that preach falsehoods to the masses. I did not comment on this site to condemn but to inform. I try to let others know that what they write about might need to be better explained. I to could have said it better when I questioned you about what you wrote. I am as guilty as those that I write about as well. Yet maybe we all could learn from one another about the way that we communicate. So please don’t get me wrong with my comments as I am just asking questions for a better understanding. It is good to see that there are those out there that are trying to inform us all of Gods word.
God Bless you in all that you do.
“A Christian cannot get drunk or “intoxicated” even a little.”
What you say here is false. If you think about it, you would know that anytime you consume even a trace amount of alcohol then you have become intoxicated even if just a little. If you take a spoonful of cough syrup that contains alcohol then you have become intoxicated. From what you are saying is referring to any amount is a sin and so becoming intoxicated does not refer to by volume.
“This is any occasion where excessive drinking can occur. This may include more than bars such as athletic events and house parties.”
If I go to a bar because I like to play darts with a few friends then according to you I am sinning just for being there even though I do not drink. This is wrong. You say where excessive drinking CAN OCCUR. Well lets see if I get this correct. Where ever a person is then excessive drinking can occur. Going to church, going to school, going to the hospital, going to the zoo, going to a play at your child’s school, going to the opera, the park, the store, the kitchen (you do use food extracts don’t you), going out to eat, to a friends for dinner, going fishing, boating, hiking, jogging, biking or anyplace that a body can go on the face of the planet or other planets.
You need to stop judging others for things that you do not even understand. You need to think about what it is that you are trying to say before you say it.
“Christians cannot be a part of occasions for drinking. Just being present is a sin.”
So let me see if I get this correct according to your words. If you know someone that is drinking then you cannot become involved in any way shape or form involved or you will be in sin. If this is true then you cannot talk to them to help them or you will be in sin. You cannot go to church where they partake of the sacrament because that is involving partaking of alcohol in some form. you cannot go to the store to buy ice cream for your family because they sell alcohol and thus you are committing sin for being there.
It is people like you that upset me by misinterpreting the teachings of the Bible. You condemn all those that are not you because they don’t live their lives by your standards. It would seem that in all of your learning about the bible you fail to understand or comprehend it’s teachings. Don’t get caught up in your righteousness as your new found mission to save the world. You cannot save anyone. It is god that saves. You are just a messenger with a message. Please don’t send the wrong messages for the right or wrong reasons.
What a double standard! You condemn me for judging, which isn’t even a sin, I didn’t do it, and you did (John 7:24).
Evidently, you have problem interpreting [being honest]. You read into certain statements for the purpose of judging me.
(1st) You conclude that taking cough syrup is getting drunk. That swallowing little alcohol is a sin. For that matter, you would be condemning certain drugs and using mouthwash. This is your conclusion and it is not rational conclusion to what the Scriptures say above. You’re judging like the Pharisees judged keeping the Sabbath.
(2nd) The Spirit of Christ condemned gatherings focused on drinking not me. Where drinking “can occur” meaning there is alcohol there and provided, because the event was purposed in part or whole for drinking. That is very clear in 1 Peter 4:3. You read into “This may include more than”. You’ve done just like the liberal Pharisees would have, and looked to condemn.
(3rd) Look the statement again “occasions for drinking”. The purpose for the gathering is to drink, then Christians cannot go.
Lastly, it sounds like you wrote this because you have a guilty conscience.
Yeah, I don’t understand what you’re saying unless you’re trying to place yourself on higher ground.
I quite agreed about being a christian and drinking alcohol
Scott,
You certainly did not fail to emphasize that drunkeness is sin. On the other hand, I just wanted to be sure that you had a balanced approach to this subject. I may have misunderstood your thrust based on what I felt were not good scriptural proofs.
As I confirmed, drunkenness is a sin, no doubt. But, your question inferred that the line where one becomes intoxicated is so blurry that a Christian should simply abstain for fear of going over that line. That is what I took issue with and I emphasized moderation.
Your reply was very gracious and kind and I appreciate that we can agree to disagree, brother! That is how we know we are in the faith when both of us can learn from the other without biting and devouring each other.
PK,
I said vain drinking was a sin, because of 1 Peter 4:3. I did not say that wine was not intoxicating, but that it may not be since it is generally grape juice. See the first sentences of point #2 above.
You judge me of “cherry picking”. If someone means well, then they would not eisegete. I cannot see any eisegesis here and I have no motive for such. This study was not directed to prove or disprove the right of drinking. I don’t have a personal preference either way except against drunkenness, drinkings, and idle drinking.
Your referred Scriptures are ones to consider. Your reference to Deuteronomy 14:26 does not show that strong intoxicating drink was allowed. I think you would understand that this allowance for tithing from the law of Moses is not permissive. This was a kind of religious right too even if vain drinking was. Clearly, you would make a good point that strong drink was allowed under the obsolete law. Psalm 104 is also referring to “wine” that may or may not be alcoholic. I can see why you think this is alcoholic, but it is still an assumption to believe that gladness is intoxication and that assumption I cannot make. Those at the wedding in Cana were glad to receive their grape juice. I also cannot assume that this was intoxicating. You assume and conjecture about Jesus’ wine at the wedding being intoxicating all because the wine is better does not make it alcoholic. Grape juice varies in quality too and I am glad to receive the best. I cannot make this assumption either.
As for the new wine of the wineskins, the wine may ferment some (3%) since it does contain sugar. The wine in Acts 2 uses “gleukos” for “new” which is different from the word “new” for the wine of the wineskins. Again, I cannot assume that all references to new wine were intoxicating except for “gleukos” wine.
I simply wanted to show that drunkenness, drinking parties, and vain drinking are sins. “Casual drinking” is vain drinking.
Dear Scott,
What do you do with verses like Deuteronomy 14:26, where God advises those too far away to carry their tithes to the designated place to instead “spend the money for whatever you desire–oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. ” ?
Again, what do you do with scripture like Psalm 104:14-15 ? “You cause the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth and wine to gladden the heart of man, oil to make his face shine and bread to strengthen man’s heart.” I am not aware of grape juice making anyone’s heart glad! It may make your mouth happy and quench your thirst, but that is not what David is saying here.
It is making a strawman to say that “biblical wine” was not intoxicating when you point out that Noah got drunk on it. Scripture also tells us that Lot’s daughters “made” him drink wine, which infers, made him drink more than he wanted to. But, he got…drunk.
I am not arguing that Christians should drink, but that your thesis is flawed. Christ knew exactly what the qualities of wine were, using the example of “Neither is new wine put into old wineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.” This makes no sense if He were talking about grape juice. Fermentation is clearly inferred here as yeast, which occurs naturally on the skin of grapes that are organically grown, is what causes the old skins to burst! The Pharisees would hardly have accused Jesus of being a “winebibber” if the general population knew he was a tee-totaler.
Let’s also remember the accusation on the day of Pentecost when “Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. ” (Acts 2:13) New wine? The Greek word translated here is ‘gleukous’. That is the term used for wine that is prepared from “must” and is said to have been “sweet wine” or non-alcoholic grape juice. If that were the case though, why would these mockers have thought what they heard to be the gibberish of drunkards? Only if this “new wine” was capable of intoxicating someone would they allude to such a possibility.
And lastly on this point, Jesus certainly did make fermented wine else the “ruler of the feast” (or head waiter) would not have complimented the wine as being better than what was served earlier. Does that mean Jesus approved of people getting drunk? I don’t think so. Note that the water that was drawn out and taken to the waiter became wine. I am not sure we should infer that the water in the pots became wine in those pots. I think there is a hidden meaning in the fact that Jesus instructed the servants to fill the waterpots to the brim with water. It does not mean Jesus provided 120 gallons of fermented wine any more than it means he provided 120 gallons of grape juice.
Drunkeness, as you affirm, is vain drinking, which is simply “drinking to get drunk”. When that is the purpose of it, it is indeed vain because it serves no good purpose. But, a glass of wine makes very few people drunk and anyone predisposed to immoderate drinking or alcoholism must avoid it entirely. In the words of Paul “All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up.” (1 Corinthians 10:23 ESV) Paul is not talking about anything and everything here. He is talking about what believers were eating and drinking.
When Paul finds fault here: “For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk.” (1 Corinthians 11:21 ESV) he is implying that one brother has more food and drink than he needs at these “fellowship” meals, else the one wouldn’t go hungry and the other get drunk. He is not saying the brother who got drunk was okay to do so. It is more obvious that he is emphasizing the lack of moderation and sharing all things in common in the Corinthian church.
Drunkeness is a state we define today as when people drink to excess and are not themselves in behavior or speech. No Christian should be found in such a position. But, being a little lightheaded and cheerful because you enjoyed a beer or a glass of wine is no sin if the drinking is not done to drown one’s troubles or as a means of escape. And one must be careful not to drink in the company of someone such as yourself, whose conscience would be troubled by it. I would certainly not insist that it was my “right” to drink wine in the company of one who felt it to be wrong. But, that same person cannot bind my conscience to his own.
As Paul says “I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks? So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. ” (1 Corinthians 10:29-31 ESV)
I don’t disagree with you in order to justify my own drinking. I could surely live the rest of my life without wine or beer. I very rarely have a glass of wine, and then never more than one. I do not need either beer or wine, thank God. But, the point I am trying to make is to implore you to use sensible and well balanced use of the scripture to make your point, rather than unsupportable “cherry picking”.
God bless! I know you mean well brother.
good job and thanks