The Old Testament Scriptures record the process of collecting its books. From the beginning of the written Law, Moses gave the Law to the priests to care for it (Deut 31:9). God commanded that the Book of the Law be placed in the Ark of the Covenant for which the Levites oversaw (Deut 31:9, 24–26). From Moses on, books were added to the Law as they were written by inspired men. The book of Joshua recorded that Joshua wrote in “the Book of the Law of God” and added his inspired words to the Law of God (Josh 24:26). Even unto the writing of Chronicles, the Book of Kings was written into the Law of the Lord (2 Chr 35:26–27), and the Book of Kings reads that the Chronicles were added to the Law of God (2 Kings 23:28).
The Old Testament also records that Israel preserved the Law through the centuries. Even until the reign of Jehoshaphat, the Law was being taught in all the cities by the prophets and by the Levites (2 Chr 17:9). The Law was found in the keep of the Levites and read before King Josiah and all Israel before Israel’s captivity (2 Chr 34:17–21; 2 Kings 22:8–16; 23:2–3, 21–28). Then even further to the time of Israel’s restoration, Ezra is described as a priest and the scribe of the Law of God (Ezra 7:11–12), and he returned from Babylonian captivity and set his heart on the study of the Law of the Lord (Ezra 7:10). The Book of Nehemiah also recorded Ezra as being the scribe of the Law and reading it to the remnant who had returned from captivity (Neh 8:1). The Law was kept and copied throughout the centuries from Moses to Ezra, which is over a millennium. Prejudice would discount the reliability of the scriptures affirmed by the Septuagint, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and more.
Unto the first century AD, the New Testament writings confirm the existence of the written Law of Moses. For which, there was no debate over what Scriptures were inspired. Jesus confirmed the Old Testament collection by mentioning its three divisions excluding the addition of the Apocrypha, which was added 2000 years after the completion of the Old Testament. (Apocrypha means “hidden away.”) Jesus taught, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled” (Luke 24:44). Jesus was clearly using all of the Scriptures for He also said, “And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, He [Jesus] interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself” (Luke 24:27). Jesus had no doubt that God oversaw and protected the Scriptures. Lastly, as a scholarly man explained regarding the collection of the books of the Bible, “If you prove the Bible, then you prove the collection of the Bible.” He was saying that the numerous evidences proving that the Bible came from God proves to us that God oversaw and keeps His Book from a state of distortion and corruption.
See also “How the New Testament Came Together.”
Seeing God's Breath 
Personally, as far as qualifications go, I know this: I have a degree in computer systems and admin. I know alot of people with various SW and HW certifications (of which I elected not to pursue) . The same goes for people I knew in medical community (which I previously was a part of). I can tell you that many of those good people haven’t got a clue. Nothing against them or their certificates, but they are/were so book-smart, that they are/were idiots in the real world. The application and the knowledge never quite lined up. And when it didn’t they fell back on their textbooks, or quoted someone else. The same can be said of anyone with ANY kind of degree. A degree is something that you pay for. You’re given the subject matter, which is written opinion or research, upon someone elses opinion on top of someone elses research, speculation or hypothesis — but in the end, you really only paid for the paper that says you were taught “how” to pass all the exams, and were shaped by the injection of — and for the aligning to — the instructors’ own veiws. Give me someone with wisdom, common sense, and the ability to uncover truth wherever it leads him … anyday.
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OK, for the sake of answering your questions- which ones haven’t I answered? By the way, I certainly hope that you do not think that taking 5 classes qualifies you to denounce evolution. Come back with a doctorate in biology and then start denouncing it; otherwise, I’m dropping the issue since you can’t seem to understand how unqualified you are.
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I was hoping that you would have explain yourself and answered some of these questions. I have no further comments except that I had more than 2 college classes in science. I have 2 in Zoology, 2 in Physics, and 1 in Physiology.
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This’ll be my last comment, just reiteration. I am a Catholic-Christian and I do not accept the Bible as the perfect, inerrant “word of God.” Any book that claims that women need to “learn at home and in silence” does not come from God, in my opinion. But the Bible is open to a world of different interpretations- such as your interpretation of the Genesis 1 account. It is your interpretation of the Bible that causes problems, not the Bible itself. Your interpretation of Genesis 1 is directly opposed to modern science. A 6,000 year old earth is more than improbable.
One problem you have IMO is that you view so many things as exclusive. What do you mean I accept evolution and the Jesus Seminar “over” the Church and the Church “over” the Bible? I accept all of them. By the way, regarding the Orthodox, I accept the Church which means that I accept the sacraments, which the Orthodox have. It’s not a choice of “Oh the Catholic Church is more right then the Orthodox,” but of geography. You are showing your ignorance of Catholic/Orthodox theology here. Except for maybe sedevacantists or older Orthodox, the Church of today realizes that the sacraments are what matters, not the label “Catholic” or “Orthodox.” They are the same Church, after all; just currently separated.
What don’t you understand about the fact that I accept the Jesus Seminar, Bible, Church, and science? They each compliment each other and aren’t opposed. The only way these would oppose each other is if one adopted your interpretation of the Bible (which science, the Jesus Seminar, and common sense disproves). When you do not hold rigidly to the Bible but is open many different interpretations, your faith deepens by leaps and bounds.
Regarding evolution- I never said that I can’t “understand” it, I just say that I am unqualified to decry it. And you are dead wrong about the Catholic Church believing in a “6 day creation.” Your quotation of the Catechism, taken way out of context, was not regarding Creation but of the necessity of taking a day off. If you want to know the paragraphs which relate to evolution, go to 341, 159, and 283. While the Catholic Church does not take it upon herself to teach evolution (it is not a scientific institution), the Church sees no contradiction between evolution (or any science) and God. Perhaps you should read this speech given by the late Holy Father John Paul II- http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM and you will understand more fully the relationship between evolution, science, and the Church.
My understanding does not agree with Jesus? Then by all means, let me study more so that I more fully become like Christ. And do not tell me what I believe and what I do not believe. I DO believe that the message of Jesus has meaning and that we should not forsake the Bible or the gospels. That’s been my point all along.
How is God calling me? God beckons all of his creation unto himself, myself included. Perhaps one day you will realize that God calls us to himself, not to a specific interpretation of the Bible.
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In all of this discussion, when will you explain your side? You have not provided a single source for why you believe evolutionists and the Jesus Seminar over Catholic hierarchy, and then the Catholic hierarchy over the Bible and over any other earlier churches like the Orthodox churches. Why don’t you believe that evolutionists and the Jesus seminar that there is no God? That’s my whole point proved over and over again with you ignoring to provide any evidence to account for anything that you believe. Every statement that you’ve made has lacked evidence. If you know better, then enlightened me with the knowledge that was blessed to you that escapes diligent Bible students throughout the churches of Christ.
So, you can’t understand evolution, but you accept it. Do you believe that to have sound reasoning? How would you know what level of intellect that I have regarding science if you don’t have a degree in science? You can’t understand why it is that you believe the Jesus Seminar or what their criteria is and you admit to accepting them, because you want to without any other reason. Do you have a degree in Bible? Well, then I guess according to your logic then you can’t understand the Bible nor can you criticize it.
As we’ve established historically, you have no ground to stand on in accepting the Catholic church over the Orthodox. Which hierarchy will you accept?
I called the Lord’s Supper “a blessed meal” because it is. Are you not so ignorant to know that Eucharist means “blessed”? The Lord’s Supper is often titled “Eucharist” meaning “blessed”, because that is how the meal began with a prayer of blessing the broken bread just like it is recorded in the Bible. I spoke to you as much on the words for the Lord’s Supper since who knows what part of the Bible you choose to accept and what parts that you do not. How am I suppose to know that you believe the phrase “Lord’s Supper” for the blessed meal of the body and blood of Christ?
Let me see if I have your lie correct. Are you saying that the Catholic hierarchy believes in evolution, believes the Genesis account of Creation is a myth, and rejects the Bible that “they made”? Have you been confirmed? From the Catholic Catechism (Article 3, 2169), “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them,”.
I’m insinuating that you’re understanding does not agree with Jesus. Or, did Christ and His Apostles write words that have no meaning? Apparently, you believe that the words of Christ have no meaning for if the words had meaning then we’d all understand the same thing. People who believe in post-modern relative babble make up their own faith. They make the words of Christ to mean whatever they want them to mean. How is God calling you? What is your side? What is there to understand besides that you make up your own faith?
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So you’ve taken two, TWO, “high level” science classes at college (probably a Church of Christ affiliated college, no doubt) and now you think you’re authorized to launch an attack against evolution? “Inaccurate dating methods”? Like Carbon-14 which, it turns out, isn’t that inaccurate at all? The reason I don’t need a degree to accept evolution is because I’m not attacking it. The vast majority of the scientific field (biologists, anthropologists, geneticists, and the like) accept evolution and I respect their studies and accept their conclusions. You, however, are pissing on their work, calling it lies, and putting forth your untestable ideas.
Regarding the Jesus Seminar- I was simply pointing you to the premier scholarship on Jesus in the modern times if you wish to find out what Jesus historically said. There is no higher level of Jesus scholarship than the Jesus Seminar. It is interesting to note that these people too have Ph.Ds and Th.Ds, but yet you still claim that they are “in no position to judge such things.” Are you an anti-intellectual if it does not fit your narrow understanding?
Scott, you reject the Church and the Sacraments; I wasn’t saying that your church is invalid nor was I rejecting your baptism. You just don’t share in the historical Communion and that’s not my fault. You can commune with Christ in many ways. Besides, I don’t know why you call it a “Blessed Meal.” Even to you Church of Christers, it’s just simple bread and grape juice. Nothing “Blessed” about that.
Catholics believe in evolution and are “Bible critics.” Do I believe in God? So because I believe in evolution and question the relevancy of some parts of the Bible, now you’re asking if I “believe in God”? Am I a Christian? Scott, how shameful. Are you insinuating that one has to believe in your interpretation of the Bible in order to be a Christian?
“Do I make up my own faith?” What kind of questions are these, Scott? I’ve said all along- God is calling each of us to him and we all go on our own journey. You go on yours and I go on mine. We do not need to adhere to a set of beliefs in order to get to heaven, we just need to endeavor to find God. The only reason I bother posting these objections is because I fear that if I don’t, no one else will and “my side” will never be understood.
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Erik, I don’t know of any real science that supports evolution. I’ve taken at least 2 high level sciences classes in college and I’ve read numerous papers in astrophysics and genetics. I continually keep up with scientific journals for which I can understand. I can understand science very well even without a “degree”. I could say that same thing about atheistic evolutionists. Where do they get off criticizing the Bible or what about Jesus Seminar. These people don’t know the Bible. Back to the “scientists”. If they can prove evolution, then prove it. They don’t need to assert it. Showing me over and over again inaccurate dating methods and making assertions about fossils does nothing. Showing me adaptation and genetic drift within a species does nothing. They give labels. I’m a “scientist” and this is “evolution”. I think you can understand this. The numerous graduate students cannot give evidence to me either.
On top of all this, if I cannot understand evolution to criticize it, then I cannot understand it to accept it and neither can you even make this point. You don’t have a degree in any science either. Wouldn’t you agree? I can criticize what I do know about science and what the common person can understand. Or should the common person blindly pick the Evolutionary scientist over the Creation scientist? Kenneth Miller is also opposed by other Creation scientists. What about philosophy and other forms of reasoning? Can these not provide truth about the Creator? Can the common person know anything or must everyone get a degree in science from an evolutionist? That’s elitist and arrogant.
Jesus Seminar? Do you know anything about them? Does anyone know how they systematically decide what to cut out of the Bible? They themselves do not even know. Let’s sit around casting little colored balls for what we think in our own opinions that Jesus did say, could have said, or did not. Where do they get the right? Those people attack the Catholic Church and criticize miracles. They have not one shred of evidence to support them. They make their decision on the basis that Jesus was just wise man not from God since the God of the Jews does not exist according to them. At one time, I was skeptical of my faith. I consider this and looked for their evidence, but there isn’t any. Just give me some proof here. The Jesus Seminar does not have the words of Christ and they are in no position to judge such things.
Erik, regarding the Eucharist, you said that I was not partaking of the Blessed Meal. Therefore, then I am not communing with Christ according to you. You said, “…you do not have the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist.” Your statement is to invalidate my baptism and claim that I’ve never communed with Christ in the Blessed Meal. I can respect your position. It’s logical coming from your position that you would think I do not partake of the communion with Christ. That’s why are discussion is critical. Either we’re both irrational, or there is some truth here. I just want to know what you source is for knowledge. Erik, I do not disrespect your belief, but at the same time, I don’t what you believe in. Are you a Catholic and, or a Bible critic who believes in evolution? Do you believe in God? Does the Catholic church agree with your beliefs? Are you a Christian? I can barely tell that you believe that Jesus was a wise man.
Is your faith dependent upon what the Jesus Seminar says along with some guidance from the Catholic church? Do make up your own faith or, does your faith from some communications from God and Christ? What are these communications? How do you receive them? How do you know that you are communing with Christ? Are these not fair and reasonable questions to ask someone who does not except the Bible as the sole communication from God? How else does God speak to you?
We’re barely hanging to the subject matter of this post here.
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So when someone from Harvard denies your creation myth, it’s because he’s a “skeptic hired by skeptics” and not because science supports the decision itself?
Do you have a degree in science? I often ask that question to creationists who have no basis for criticizing evolution but do anyway. What gives you, someone without a degree in science, the authority to tell someone with a Ph.D (such as Kenneth Miller) who does believe in evolution and has studied it and also is a Christian? If it is as nonsensical as you make it out to be, do you not think that he would have come across that conclusion during his years of studies?
Do you want to know what the historic Jesus Christ actually said? I suggest looking up books from the Jesus Seminar, the premier seminar in historical Jesus studies. If you want to know the message of Jesus, just read his words for yourself, recognize his example, meditate on them, and be like Christ. It really isn’t as difficult as you make it out to be. With a discerning mind, you can realize what in the Bible is of Christ and what is not as long as you remember that the love is the center of Christ’s message. Love and compassion.
I’m not communing with Christ? That’s a a very irrational thing for you to say. While I disagree with your approach to the Bible, at least I have not said that you are not a Christian; I ask you to do the same. The Lord’s Supper is more central to Christianity than the Bible is and I am glad that the Catholic Church and the Orthodox have kept it for 2,000 years. After all, Jesus did say “Do this in memory of me,” not “Read this in memory of me.”
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