Supposedly, good people go to Heaven, and most people believe that they are good and that they are going to Heaven. Why would anyone need Jesus? We are confident in our goodness despite our consciences convicting us of right and wrong. We feel guilt, shame, and regret for what we have done. We have all lied, stole, slandered, cursed someone, hated, and lusted for someone we should not. Are we innocent or guilty? Our consciences tell us that we are guilty but we all want to be free of such condemnation.
Sometimes, we console ourselves by saying that society’s standards make us feel guilty. Unless we have become morally callous, we should all feel guilty even if society approves of child abuse or trafficking of the innocent. Society cannot be the standard for moral right and wrong. Society did not give us our conscience. They have no right to tell us what is good and what is evil. We all have rights. We know that those who violate our rights are doing evil. Our consciences and our pursuit of our rights show constant proof of a standard of right and wrong.
The Origin of Virtue
Virtue was not invented by people but rather existed before people. From where would virtue have begun? Virtue is constant and has always been. The only other options for the origin of virtue that it comes from nothing or it came from people, which cannot be that something come from nothing or virtue from contradicting societies.
We are confident that the existence of virtue implies purpose. There is a purpose to life. Virtue presents justice as justice is essential to maintain human rights. There will be justice and there must be a judgment for the guilty. How can there be judgment without there being a just and virtuous Judge? However, we are all guilty great or low. We are often confused over what is right and wrong since people contradict each other. We are constantly convicted by our consciences to know what is good and evil by an innate sense of judgment upon us. From what we do know, we know that we all have guilt, shame, and regret.
How Does Jesus Help
This brings us to our question. Who needs Jesus? What’s the point? What does Jesus offer to understand right and wrong? What virtues does Jesus bring? Does Jesus bring justice to the guilty? Where are the greatest and purest morals? We can consider the morals of many. Among these is Jesus. We must admit that His teachings stand out among the many. He was the first to say, “It is more blessed to give than to receive” (Acts 20:35), “And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise” (Luke 6:31), “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends” (John 15:13), and much more (Matt 5:39–42, 44; 6:19, 21, 25; 15:18–20; Luke 6:37; 14:12–13; John 7:24; 13:34–35). His virtues bring much clarity on whether we really want to accept Jesus or not. In all of this, we are confident that there must be mercy, but not a mercy from those who keep doing evil and not a mercy made up by society. Therefore, we either neglect a search for truth with mercy, half-heartedly take in what we can, or we diligently pursue mercy among all the morality that we can gather.
The Words of Jesus
We cannot escape the words of Jesus of Nazareth. His words weigh on the hearts of those who know them. Some people scoff at him and most neglect him. The rest believe Jesus’s teachings and diligently seek mercy from the great Judge us all who Jesus refers to as His heavenly Father. By the evidence of a plurality of witnesses, we know whether history is true or whether someone is guilty of a crime. By this standard, the witnesses of Jesus’s life confirmed that Jesus lived, died, and resurrected. Jesus taught the highest and purest standard of morals that have ever been taught, but this teacher suffered persecution and died being nailed to a wooden cross. Then according to witnesses, they confirm that Jesus was innocent of all sin and was not worthy of the justice and condemnation of death, and thereby Jesus defeated death by being raised from the dead (Heb 2:14). Because of this, Jesus is the only way to eternal life in the new earth (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).
Jesus revealed that His words will judge the world on the last day (John 12:47–48). His words are spirit and life (John 6:63). Jesus gave these words to His Apostles who wrote them in the Bible and His words will never pass away (John 15:20; 17:8; cf. Matt 24:35). Jesus’s apostles and prophets wrote His words so that you can know that you have eternal life and so that you can be complete and equipped to do every good work (1 John 5:13; 2 Tim 3:16–17). Jesus showed that our own good deeds cannot save us and get us into the eternal kingdom of the heavenly country (Eph 2:8–9). Christ is the author of salvation to all those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
Meaning, Purpose, and Judgment
The problem with believing that good people go to heaven by being good is that they believe that they are good apart from Jesus Christ and this makes Jesus’s life and death meaningless and void. In doing this, we would disregard our own guilt. Jesus also taught that man and woman were created in the image of God (Matt 19:4; cf. Gen 1:26–27). Jesus’s words teach that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16; cf. 1 Cor 13:13). This indicates that humankind was created in God’s image with the purpose to love. This also indicates that to do evil is to act without love, which is how people are guilty and thus we offend God (1 Cor 13:1–3). Therefore, Jesus is right to say that if we love God, then we will obey His commands (John 14:21, 23–24).
Jesus’s words teach that one day everyone will be judged by God for what they have done (Rev 22:12; cf. 2 Cor 5:10). Jesus also taught that there are only two destinations for the innocent and the guilty: eternal life and eternal punishment (Matt 25:34, 41, 46). All are guilty including good people. All have sinned and fallen short of God’s glory (Rom 3:23; 5:12). All are condemned having earned spiritual death (Rom 5:16–18; 6:23; cf. John 3:18–21). However, there is good news for the guilty.
The Good News
How can we be saved through Jesus’s death and resurrection? Jesus’s words teach you to believe and confess that He is the resurrected Lord and God (Rom 10:9–10; cf. John 1:1, 14; 8:24, 58). Jesus taught, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven” (Matt 7:21). There is more to being saved than confessing Christ as “Lord.” Jesus teaches that one who loves Him will keep His commands (John 14:21, 23–24). Jesus’s words teach the necessity for you to change your mind to stop practicing sin (repent) and be immersed (baptized) in water in Jesus’s name to wash away your sins (Acts 2:38; 22:16). Jesus revealed, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16). Know that there is only one baptism to obey, which is to be immersed in water (Acts 10:47–48; Eph 4:5; 5:26). With obedience, people are saved by the Gospel: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor 15:1–4; 2 Thess 1:7–9). One obeys the Gospel by re-enacting it by dying to sins, being buried in baptism, and being resurrected to a new life (Rom 6:4–6; Col 2:12–13). Is this the Gospel that you obeyed? “Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins” (Acts 22:16).
By baptism, one is added to the church of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 12:13). The church is Christ’s people and community. Christ saved, built, and bought with His blood the one Church (Matt 16:18; Eph 1:22–23; 4:4; 5:23–26; cf. Acts 20:28). After baptism, one must walk in the light that the blood of Christ washes away sins (1 John 1:7). Walking in the light is to obey God’s commands in love (1 John 2:3–6). His commands include reading the Bible, praying, and going to the meetings of the church of Christ (Phil. 4:6–7; 1 Tim 4:13; Heb 10:25). The truth is that God wants everyone to know the truth and be saved (1 Tim 2:4), so be aware of many who knowingly or unknowingly perverts the gospel of Christ for they are accursed (Matt 7:15–20; Gal 1:6–12).
The Breath of God 
Before addressing your numerous points of error, I wished you were not so hard-hearted and turned against the words of Christ. I discuss this with you for those who may read if any may avoid this damning teaching, and maybe you’ll leave this error. You affirm that the only condition for forgiveness is faith alone while I affirm that the condition for forgiveness is faith in which one walks in the light. I affirm that one approaches salvation by hearing the Gospel (Rom. 10:17), believing (Rom. 10:9-10), confessing Jesus (Rom. 10:9-10), dying to sins (Rom. 6:6), being buried with Jesus in baptism (Rom. 6:3-4), and living in newness of life (Rom. 6:4-5).
I hope that when you do make further points that you will prove yourself. You have not done so yet. You do support yourself with a strange twisting of Romans 4 and other such passages. Understanding Romans 4 especially in the light of James 2 is the core of our disagreement and it is the stumbling block in your path. I would not mind having further discourse on this matter. I have and will continue to consider all your thoughts honestly.
First, see the context of Romans 4. Paul was referring to the Law of Moses (Rom. 3:1-20). Rom. 3:20, “because by the works of the Law none of all flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the knowledge of sin.” This law is the Law of Moses not the law of faith. Then we also see that the righteousness of God has been revealed apart from the Law of Moses (Rom. 3:21). Where is God’s righteousness revealed? This was witnessed by the Law of Moses and the prophets, which is that the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ (v22). Because of this, Paul’s point is “Then where is the boasting? It is excluded. Through what law? Of works? No, but through the law of faith” (v27). Clearly, the boasting is “through the law of faith”. Verse 28 concludes “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the works of the Law.” Clearly, in this case, these works are the works of the Law of Moses that one is justified apart and not the works of “the law of faith”. This is said in uniting the Jews and Gentiles in verses 29-30, “Or is He the God of the Jews only, and not also of the nations? Yes, of the nations also, (30) since it is one God who will justify circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” Clearly, we have no boasting in works of the Law of Moses and we are not justified by the works of the old Law, but as Paul affirmed before, it is by works that grace and wrath are rendered to everyone (Rom. 2:6-10). Add to this that Romans begins and ends with mentioning “obedience to the faith” (1:5, 16:26) and it is evident that works are essential to the law of faith.
Second, Romans 4:1-3, “What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, has found according to the flesh? (2) For if Abraham was justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not toward God. (3) For what says the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.” What works was Paul referring to? These are the works of the Law of Moses from the context above. Was Abraham under the Law of Moses? He was not under the Law of Moses. What is Paul’s point? Abraham was under the law of faith (v27) as both Jews and Greeks are under this law and may receive the same inheritance of Abraham. Now, the following works of Romans 4 are referring to the works of the Law of Moses and not to those of the law of faith. More specifically, this was a refutation of circumcision under the old Law (v7-12). See even the conclusion of this matter in Romans 9:30-32 that the works of the Law is the stumbling-block. Now, because of Abraham’s faith in the promise, he “was able to work” (4:20) and “therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness” (4:22).
Third, further into Romans, see that “grace may reign through righteousness to eternal life” (5:21), but this is because those who have grace died to their sins, were buried with Christ in baptism, and were raised with Jesus to walk in the newness of life (Rom. 6:1-6). Were works still needed here to be justified from sin? “For he who died has been justified from sin. (8) But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (9) knowing that when Christ was raised from the dead, He dies no more; death no longer has dominion over Him.” See, we must do something, die. “Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life” (Rom. 6:4). “But thanks be to our God that you were the slaves of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. (18) Then being made free from sin, you became the slaves of righteousness” (Rom. 6:17-18). “For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live” (8:13). Here again the works of men make all the difference.
Fourth, James 2:14-26 is no contradiction to any passage in Romans for being justified apart from the works of the law of Moses. The Spirit teaches in James that “You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only” (2:24).
Fifth, you error is most simply seen in what you affirm using Romans 4:4-5. You affirm that Romans 4:4 teaches about all works (and not just works of the Law) that “one who works his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due”, and so to follow your reasoning, we not to do any works at all since then this will be “as his due”. This makes verse 5 your motto, “And to the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness”, and so you must conclude that you are righteous not doing any good deeds and that you are better to continue as an ungodly person, since you believe that Romans 4 is referring to all works and not to the works of the Law of Moses.
Apart from our disagreement of Romans 4, you admit that we must obey baptism and that Christ only saved those who obey Him (Heb. 5:9). It is true that all baptisms are from God, but there is clearly only one baptism for every Christian to obey (Eph. 4:5). Not everyone received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Acts 11:15) though every Christian must have the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:11). This is seen clearly by Holy Spirit baptism only given to the 12 and then to Cornelius’ household (Acts 2, 10, *11:15). If Spirit baptism were for everyone, then the Apostles erred in giving the gift of the Spirit (spiritual gifts) without Holy Spirit baptism but by the laying on of hands (Acts 8:14-17, 19:1-6). The one baptism is clearly that one commanded of Christ (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:16), which is in water (Acts 8:16, 10:47-48). Christ commanded baptism in His name (Matt. 28:19), and still you refuse to accept this work of God to forgive sins in His baptism, His work. You hinder Christ’s work in others in believing the lie that baptism is not essential. Christ’s baptism is presented clearly to be in water (Acts 2:38, 10:47-48). You must also admit that those who love Christ obey His command to be baptized in water unto the remission of sins (1 John 5:3). Is it not Christ who washes away sins “with the washing of water by the Word” (Eph. 5:26)? See, this is Christ’s working that you hinder when you do not work. Apparently, there is no work of man in forgiveness and none that you will allow Christ. Are you not also familiar that those who are baptized do not baptize themselves? These allow themselves to be baptized. They essentially do no work of their own but they are baptized by Christ and accept the forgiveness that Christ offers in being baptized.
I know that in your mind there is no work or condition for which a man must walk to be cleansed of all sins though the Spirit says, “but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.” I must ask: do you not believe that one is saved in faith of any condition apart from the work of walking in the light? From what I’ve read, you do not believe that walking in the light is necessary for the cleansing of sin and you are in direct contradiction to Scripture. In this, I can only conclude that you are quenching the Spirit, by which I mean that you hinder the Spirit’s revelation by accepting and teaching this false doctrine in contradiction.
I’m sorry that you cannot understand with more than sufficient words that I do not live a life of sin though I have sinned and may sin again. I died to sin. This misunderstanding alone reveals how your mind is clouded and set to criticize without understanding. Along with this and on another point, I never said that one enters salvation in last paragraph in the above paragraph.
Regarding your archaic and extra-biblical definition of repentance, you evidently did not read the Scriptures presented since those passages show that repentance is not only the changing of mind but the changing of actions too. The word “repent” has not changed from its original meaning much like ekkleisia for church which originally meant “called out”. Then again, this all has to do with your blindness, and unwillingness to submit to a word-study of Scriptures instead a weaker source like a lexicon whose source is a word-study.
What in round world is a work to you? Just Christ’s baptism! So that you can condemn it. And, then Changing one’s mind is not a work! You have dug yourself in a hole telling me to change my mind regarding my understanding to receive God’s grace. That is what you wrote “Without repenting of your campbellite doctrine you can never be receive God’s grace.” You want me to work repentance, but it is not a work? If it is a work, then do you want me to work out by salvation? Or do you also believe that the Holy Spirit changes people’s hearts apart from the Word of God?
Again, you do not prove yourself regarding Matthew 7. You say Christ is condemning all works good and evil. Though He says of His good deeds that we are to keep them. “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock” (Matt. 7:24).
Faith is a work and we can only be justified in a faith of works apart from the works of the Law of Moses. The Scriptures teach that there is work of faith. “We give thanks to God always for all of you, constantly mentioning you in our prayers, remembering before our God and Father your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thes. 1:2-3). Still, as you proclaim, that you have a faith without works like the demons who also have such a dead faith, but even worse, you believe that you will be saved by believing that you will be saved. Where is that faith in the Scriptures? That sounds like works salvation in that you will salvation from God just because you believe in Christ and that He’ll save you.
I pray for you to have grace and peace in Christ.
For your mandatory question: Yes and Yes, but Im sure i will need to clarify because of the way they’re “loaded” im not sure if it was intentionally that way or not.
There is only one baptism into our calling, but you have misrepresented Pauls words in ephesians to try to say there is only one baptism period. I dont know how your are going to deal with the many verses in relation to the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The bible makes a clear distinction between water baptism and baptism of the Holy Spirit: jhn 1:33, mark 1:18, Acts 10:47, acts 11:16. Acts 19:2 and Gal 3:2 clearly state it is by faith and not baptism.
And yes Jesus is also the author of salvation to those that believe 1jhn 5:13. now that thats out of the way…
You said, ““Sinning” is a participle that is many times used to refer a continuance of action such as practicing sin.” So if you have not stopped sinning completely you still must sin. This means you still practice sin, just maybe not as often as before you were “saved” by your “baptism.” This is what all works based salvation people do, they down-play sin to make themselves feel like people worthy of heaven. Somehow less habitually to these people means “not habitually.” Im not relying on my works to make me rightous, i admit im nothing more than a vile sinner, although i try not to sin it happens, but God has imputed rightousness to my account by grace through faith. Although, i am not rightous God treats me as im rightous; because of what Christ did im justified. Although i sin God does not impute sin to me. (Rom 4:8)
You will not accept this, however, and only want to work for your salvation by trying to stop sinning, getting baptized, taking the Lord’s supper, and everything else you listed.
Repentance is not work; It is simply a change of mind, nothing more. If it was anything more John would have not said “Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance” because the repentance itself (if it were a change in action) would have been visible itself, john wants outward proof (works) proving their repentance. John the baptist can’t read their mind.
I have built my house one the work Jesus did for us at the cross; not any of my work. I HAVE listened to Jesus because Jesus answered the same people and said “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” You have built your house on what the people of Matt 7 built on- many wonderful works in His name like baptism.
Again you have misrepresented what Jesus said in this passage also, though. The people asked Jesus what work they must do. Jesus answered them according to what they asked. similarly, to if someone asked how much salvation costs, and one told them, “it costs nothing.” You wouldnt… well… i wouldnt conclude ‘nothing’ was a cost, its the opposite. If this was not so, Paul could not say, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Because he that worketh not could not believe since belief would be in the works catagory, im not sure if you understand that, you didnt answer it from my last post- wait i guess you didnt answer anything from my post…
I’m not sure if you can understand this but it boils down to this: if one can believe and not work belief can’t be work.
You have built a Staw man in your other response. “Christians only” do not understand biblical belief because they had to redefine everything from works to belief to repentance and the like so they could squeeze in baptism. The last “Christian only” i discussed this with did the same thing. Biblical belief is not just acknowledgment that Jesus existed, like the way a kid believes in santa or the tooth fairy or the way a demon believes in Jesus. I believe in Jesus existence but that does not save anyone, one has to put their faith in what he did to save them. Jesus said, ” He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.” Jesus shed his blood to pay for the sins of the world and will save “whosover wills.” But “christians only” do not want to rely on what Jesus did, they want to think their dunking people in their bath tub helps and then rely on the rest of their works. And they want to say its by grace becuase they still dont deserve it. But they dont know what Grace is. Grace is the opposite of works, “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.” You can not mix in works and still call it grace because you dont deserve it, it ceases to be grace when you must work.
And your interpretation of James is in Contradiciton to Romans, particualarly rom 4:5. actually the whole chapter of romans 4 and the rest of the bible for that matter.
Paul starts out with Abraham as the Father of the faith and uses him as an example of a man whom we should not only emulate, but as an individual that God used to communicate some truths about the nature of faith, forgiveness, and justification. Paul says, “What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. ”
He quoted from Genesis 15:6 that is very important.
God applies righteousness to our account.
Paul is saying, How is Abraham justified? He is justified by faith the same way that I’ve been describing. God counts Abraham’ s faith as righteousness, and for him who doesn’t work at all but trusts in a God who will justify the ungodly to Him, it is counted as righteousness. Faith only.
James seems to say we are justified not by faith, but by works. We have what appears to be a contradiction. Being Christians and believing that God speaks through the Bible, we can’t have a contradiction.
the word “justified” has more than one meaning:
http://m-w.com/dictionary/justified
Paul uses it with one meaning in Romans 4 and James uses it with a different meaning in James 2. It is not uncommon that a word has more than one meaning. In fact, it is common that any given word would have a multitude of meanings. Look in a dictionary and you can see that almost every word has more than one meaning, almost without exception. It is the context that dictates what meaning is in view.
I know that there are two different meanings here because one word is applied to one point of Abraham’s life and another meaning is implied to an entirely different point of Abraham’s life. This is a very important point in hermeneutics and a look at the Old Testament will solve this problem for us.
A given word could mean a number of different things, even if it is the same word. Think of the word “gay,” for example. The word has two entirely different meanings. You could say, “It was a gay affair,” and you wouldn’t know whether it was a homosexual or happy thing unless you had more context to determine the definition. But it wouldn’t be fair to say that every time the word gay is used it means homosexual because it actually does have a separate meaning. We have to look at the context to know which meaning is in view.
The same thing is true in the area of justification. There is a difference between when God justifies a man and when a man justifies himself. When I say to you, “Justify yourself,” what am I asking you to do? I’ m asking you to justify your actions, prove to me something about the nature of your actions. You are being asked to show me something.
So justification has two meanings. God justifies the ungodly. What does that mean? He gives them righteousness. He applies it to their account. He “counts them righteous” even though they are not is how Paul puts it. So one meaning of the word justify is to declare righteous. The second meaning of the word justify is to prove to be righteous. It has to do with a demonstration, just like when I tell you to justify yourself.
How do I know that there are two different meanings that are in view? Both Paul and James quote Abraham, but they quote different periods of his life. Paul in Romans 4 quotes Genesis 15:4 and that passage says that “Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteous.” Another way of putting it is that’s when Abraham got saved. Abraham gets saved in Genesis 15.
Later on in his life, long after this event, we see God testing Abraham in Genesis 22. Take Isaac and offer him as a sacrifice on the altar. When he obeys God and does what he is told to do, God stops him in the middle of it and says, You don’t have to do this anymore, I have provided a substitute. God makes a very important statement. In verse 12 of Genesis 22 He says, ” And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.” When James quotes Abraham’s justification, he doesn’t quote from Genesis 15 when Abraham was reckoned righteous–He quotes from Genesis 22 when Abraham demonstrated his righteousness, proved himself to be righteous to the world. He was already rightous in the eyes of God.
Further, what’ s interesting is that not only does he quote Genesis 22, but he sees Genesis 22 as an outworking or a fulfillment of his salvation in Genesis 15. In fact, James quotes the passage: “Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.”
If someone says they believe and does not work what good does it do? and what reason do I have to beleive they are saved? None. But to use James to say that works are a requirement for salvation is false doctrine and results in a contradictory bible.
Erik,
For such things like the necessity of baptism and the need for the Lord’s Supper every first day of the week, I must agree with my Catholic friends.
Grace and peace to you in Christ.
Joe,
Regarding repentance, you’re definition must be the same as mine since you say, “Without repenting of your campbellite doctrine you can never be receive God’s grace.” Isn’t repentance a work? Do you want me to now work for my salvation? That’s very contradictory. Repent from the Greek, “metanoia”, means literally “change mind”, but like many Greek words this word also came to mean “to change your actions as well as your mind” (Acts 8:22, Heb. 6:1, Rev. 2:). See also dying to sins (Rom. 6:3-5, Gal. 2:20, Col. 2:12-13). I used the phrase “stop sinning” for the unchurched to understand repentance without such a drawn out definition. [I am also not a Campbellite just a Christian.]
I never said that I did not sin, but I did imply that I stopped sinning (practice sin). “Sinning” is a participle that is many times used to refer a continuance of action such as practicing sin. I have stopped sinning meaning I do not practice sin, though I have sinned since being saved and I may do so again. I will change this above so that there are no further misunderstandings from those who are ignorant. Thank you.
Regarding Matthew 7, I have read Matthew 7 numerous times. Evidently, you have stopped comprehending Matthew 7:21-27 for this doctrine that you were indoctrinated by false teachers. You need to read the rest of the chapter verse 24-27, which shows that those who work, their house will stand and those who do not, their house will fall.
Romans 11:6 is referring to the election of grace in Christ as opposed to that of the election of works that the Jews had made (see also Romans 9:11). Either way, I am in full agreement with Scripture that we are saved by grace and not by our works, but by doing the works of God we have all sins washed away (1 John 1:7). You must deal with 1 John 1:7, and change your mind. Romans 4:4-5 are referring clearly to the works of the law of Moses (Rom. 3:28) not to the law of Christ (Romans 8:2). You must struggle with with James 2:14-26. Knowing that faith without works is dead, and that demons have the same kind of workless faith as you admit that you have. Do you and the demons have the same eternal destination?
Baptism is the exact moment of salvation. (See my post “The Exact Moment of Salvation” to see just exactly what the Scriptures teach.) I stress baptism because wolves and ignorant sheep throw out this teaching of Christ because you lack the ability for “the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:21).
You must know that on the Last Day we will all be judged by our works for God “will render to every man according to his works:” (Rom. 2:6). Second Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil” (also see Rev. 20:12). Notice “what he has done”, which is the past tense verb of the noun “work”. You are judged by your works.
I think it interesting that you persecute those who love God in obeying His commands (1 John 5:3, 2 John 6) and especially those who obey the baptism unto the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38), the point at which one is washed from their sins (Acts 22:16), and the point of resurrection into the new life (Rom. 6:7-8, 3-5).
I will delete all your following comments if you do not answer this question: Is the one baptism in the name of the Lord (Eph. 4:5, 5:26, Acts 2:38) from man or from God? Is or is not Christ the author of salvation to all who obey Him (Heb. 5:9, see this mentioned in the post)?
I pray for grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.
As strange as it may be to you, Catholics wouldn’t disagree with anything you posted (other than your “immersion” error).
SCOTT:”Jesus’ words teach to stop sinning (repent) and be immersed (baptized)”
So you claim you have stopped sinning interesting the bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” I am amazed at the way you hodge podge scripture and quote parts of verses such as mark 16:16 and others to teach this garbage. By the way “to stop sinning” is the worst definition of repentance i have ever heard.
“Jesus also said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 7:21)”
have you ever read the rest of that chapter?
“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
These people were relying on the same thing you are: their wonderful works to get them to heaven. But we are saved by grace and paul says,
“If by grace, then is it no more of works otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace otherwise work is no more work.”
Grace and work are polar opposites. You can not be saved by anything other then Gods grace. Without repenting of your campbellite doctrine you can never be receive God’s grace. You must trust in Christ alone, not Christ+baptism, or Christ+your good works.
SCOTT:”By baptism, one is added to the Church of Jesus Christ …After baptism, one must walk in the light and confess sins to God that the blood of Christ wash away sins (1 John 1:7, 9), and one must love God by obeying His commands (1 John 5:3, 2 Pet. 3:2, 1 Cor. 14:37). Such commands include…”
Work, work, work, work, work… A person can never be saved beleiving this. First, I fail to understand how you say we are saved by believing everything Jesus taught but we are saved at the moment of baptism. Why not at the moment of communion, or reading the bible or going to church, or any of the other things you have stated? SECOND, and most importantly, one can not be saved by beleiving they have to be baptized or do anythign else:
“NOW TO HIM THAT WORKETH IS THE REWARD IS NOT RECKONED OF GRACE, BUT OF DEBT. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. ”
The first is precisely what the people in Matt 7 were doing and its what you were doing too. They were trusting in Jesus+works and they were lost. Paul continues and says the exact opposite of what you say, that if one believes and does no work that their faith is COUNTED AS righteousness.
I see Ama49 that you are a member of the LDS church. I have studied many months with some LDS missionaries. I have read all of the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, and the D & C though I did not convert. I went to a meeting of the LDS church, saw a baptism, and I ate with the Bishop in the city. You have a very interesting faith.
Its good to hear from those who accept Christ’s words on baptism.
My understanding about those who have not heard the word is that they still will be held accountable and in a just way. Look at Romans 1 and we see that everyone is without excuse who does not believe in God since they see His everlasting power and divinity in Creation (v20). I also affirm that God has established some form of a moral code on our conscience though this is certainly not complete and is in need of the Gospel of Christ (Rom. 2:12-16). Then, I believe that God’s providence will bring the Gospel in some form since Christ promises that those who ask shall receive, those who seek will find, and those who knock will have the door opened to them (Matt. 7:7-8). Add to this that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be fulfilled (Matt. 5:6). In this, God is just in turning His face from those who stay in sin not knowing God and obeying His gospel (2 Thes. 1:7-9).
By the way, if you want to check out my blog site feel free to visit and leave any comments you’d like: ama49.wordpress.com
Amen to everything you have to say! I appreciate the fact that you brought up it is important to be baptized, and that it’s not only believing in Christ and confessing his name, but actually trying to walk in His footsteps.
Your thoughts are very similar to my beliefs.
One question: what do you believe will happen to those who don’t get a chance to hear the message of Jesus Christ?