The apostle Paul, the writer of fourteen books of the twenty-seven in the New Testament, is called various things and dismissed because his teachings do not align with various social standards. Many claim Jesus yet reject the apostle Paul. Many have degraded Paul’s writings as though his writings have no place in the Bible. They set Paul aside for not being a disciple during Jesus’s ministry despite being converted from hostility as a witness of Jesus’s resurrection.
Conflict with Paul
The apostle started and helped start churches throughout the Mediterranean from Syria to Italy if not Spain. His words reflect the earliest record Christian beliefs and Paul’s conversion dates to 2–3 years after Jesus’s crucifixion. Paul’s words about grace and love are cast aside because he taught people to humble themselves and live lives of sexual purity. However, he is supposedly sexist for revealing God’s made men first and God set men to be spiritual leaders (1 Tim 2:11–14). Some think Paul was bigoted for exposing the depravity of a society that rejects God and is given over to sexual passions even unnatural lusts (Rom 1:24–27). Some do not prefer the church government presented in Paul’s words because each congregation is autonomously led by elders rather than a single ruling pastor, committees, votes, or a hierarchy of bishops with a Pope (1 Tim 3:1–15, Titus 1:5–9).
Paul and All the Others
What are the effects and consequences of not accepting Paul’s writings? Does not accepting Paul’s writings mean not accepting the rest of the writings in the Christian Scriptures? If you do not accept Paul, then you cannot accept 2 Peter because the writer accepted the writings of Paul as Scripture (2 Pet 3:16). No one can reject Paul and accept 1 John as that book recognizes the writing of the apostles including Peter (1 John 1:1–4). Furthermore, Peter also accepted John (2 Pet 1:16–21). Now, those who reject Paul must reject 1 Peter to be consistent. After all, the apostle Peter instructed Christians to subordinate to the governing authorities, servants subordinate to masters, and wives subordinate to husbands (1 Pet 2:13–3:6).
By rejecting Paul’s writings, one would have to dismiss the Gospel of Luke since Luke was with Paul and agreed with Paul (Acts 16:10). Paul quoted Luke’s Gospel as Scripture (1 Tim 5:18; cf. Luke 10:7; 2 Tim 2:8). Setting aside Luke also means setting aside Luke’s book of Acts and the previously written gospel narratives that Luke mentioned in Luke 1:1–3. The gospel narratives that Luke extensively shares material with the Gospel of Matthew and shares chronology with the Gospel of Mark. This leaves only two New Testament authors, James and Jude. However, Jude closely resembles 2 Peter 2 even speaking of fulfillment of Peter’s revelation, so the one rejecting Paul and Peter could not reasonably accept Jude. James was also an apostle with Peter, associated with the Twelve, and accepted Paul (Acts 15; Gal 1:18–2:10), so someone dismissing Paul would dismiss James’s epistle.
The Cross on Christ
If someone rejects Christ’s words given through the apostle Paul, do they reject Christ? Paul taught about the apostles of Christ, “These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches” (1 Cor 2:13). This is just as Jesus declared that He would give His words to His apostles (John 17:8). Those who listened to Jesus would listen to His apostles (John 15:20). Jesus also revealed that He would send His Spirit to guide His apostles in all truth (John 14:26; 16:12–13). Because of this, Paul wrote, “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord” (1 Cor 14:37). Paul was converted by Christ, claimed revelation from Christ, preached a gospel revealed separately yet was accepted and approved by the other apostles (Gal 1:11–19, 23; 2:2, 9).
The consequences of rejecting Paul’s writings are devastating so that such a person enters into a cloudy deism at least. Rejecting the writings of Paul means rejecting the New Testament. By rejecting the New Testament, the consistent person would reject all the words of Jesus found throughout the Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Revelation. However, as previously noted, Jesus revealed that all of the Truth in Christ’s words were given to His apostles as revealed through His Spirit. By dismissing Paul, there goes the apostolic Scriptures and the early Christian faith (Eph 2:20; 3:5).
You or God?
The rejection of Paul is a character judgment of the sincerity and honesty of Paul and all of the New Testament writers. Can believers dismiss the apostle Paul and by so doing dismiss Christ? Jesus declared, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority” (John 7:16–17). When dismissing Paul’s words for conflict of one’s preferred social ethics and personal righteousness? Are people to listen to their own hearts first or to God’s Word in the Scriptures? Jesus proclaimed, “For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God” (Luke 16:15). Jesus taught things that offended people so that crowds stopped following Him (John 6:66). Isaiah presents God’s words, “‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,’ says the LORD. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts'” (Isaiah 55:8–9). Rejecting Paul’s words includes questioning Paul’s inspiration noted by his definition of love, his proclamation of the fruits of the Spirit, and much more. Such rejection devastates holy virtue in the faithful. Can highly esteemed opinions stand against Paul’s most profound statements? Should anyone consider personal thoughts higher than God’s thoughts?
By rejecting Jesus’s words given through His apostles and prophets, then faith is all or nothing for the Scriptures. Should people give up prejudices toward the Bible that are based on their personal morality? Should people reinterpret certain scriptural writers to disregard teachings that offend them and others? The whole point of the Bible is to reveal God because humanity is sinful and will contradict God.
True Christian discipleship starts with Christ. True faith consists of essential virtues of humility and meekness for which the world mocks and scoffs at the thought of such for their declaration of “pride.” However, the apostles taught everyone to subordinate to God in faith, thus to subordinate to their government, their masters, and each other (1 Pet 2:13–3:6). Humble submission to God is the virtue of true faith that trusts in the God of Jesus Christ. By this, Christians trust God to work things out through His grace. Without sincere humility, there is no real faith, and this is what this discussion is all about. Humble yourself before the words of Christ as delivered through His apostles and prophets, and let no one consider one’s thoughts greater than God and His Son, Jesus Christ.
The Breath of God 
Yet, you have not shown what scriptures that you accept. You would have to explain why Peter joined Paul (2 Peter 3:15-16). Who was John speaking of as “we” when He said, “these things we write to you” (1 John 1.4)? Were these only John and Matthew? Did John also refer to Peter who accepted Paul as Peter referred to the writings of John (2 Pet. 1:16-21)? Who were the scribes and prophets that Jesus sent (Matt. 23:34)? Where are their writings?
You are prejudice against Paul as seen by the fact that you have no witnesses against him. You have bought into this fabrication of someone’s speculation about Paul. You speak against his words without being able to show that he was a false prophet. This puts in the place of blaspheming the Holy Spirit because you prefer these false accusations against Paul. Along with rejecting Paul, you must also exclude Luke, Clement, Apollos, Timothy, Titus, Tertius, and both Silas (Silvanus) and Mark who were associates of Peter (1 Pet. 5:12, Gospel of Mark). You haven’t shown once where Paul contradicts anything that Jesus said. You have yet to provide any witnesses for your beliefs. “It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true” (John 8:17). I plead with you to reconsider position, admit that you might have been mistaken, and that you will need to take more time to study these things.
You hold to Matthew 5:17-20, which is Jesus’ introduction to refining the commandments of the Law of Moses according to what Jesus said. Christ would come being greater than Moses and revealing more in His new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34). If the first covenant was perfect then why God establish a second? Why did Jesus refer to things before the Law and annul the Law Moses saying, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. And I say to you…” (Matt. 19:8-9)? With Jesus saying that His Spirit would reveal more to His Apostles that He had yet taught them (John 16:12-13), you are left with 1-3 John and Revelation in addition to only accepting the Gospels of Matthew and John. What do you find in 1-3 John and Revelation that are not in Matthew and John’s Gospel?
How is it that Paul did the same good miraculous deeds as Christ (Gal. 3:5, 2 Cor. 11) and the other Apostles and yet you say that this is not the Father bearing witness of Paul as God did for Christ? Why is it that Paul could even give gifts by the laying on of hands? I assume that you will presume that Paul once did these things and then left Christ and perverted the Gospel, which is the very thing that Paul warned against those who would change the gospel. Would you say that Paul suffered for no witness of Christ and died for Christ being nothing more than a false prophet? What a judgment! You charge Paul without witnesses. Are you not then worthy to receive his punishment according to the Law?
I say this with love Scott..
He has answered many of those questions, and other authors have as well. The problem is that you want them/us to explain it to you rather than doing the reading and research. That isn’t good enough for Yah. He said “..my people suffer for a lack of knowledge…”…and one of the biggest problems with christianity is that people just believe what they are told instead of finding out themselves. Yah wants us to KNOW Him…and He spent thousands of years in what you call the “Old Testament” trying to make us know HOW to know Him. Then when that didn’t work, He sent a messenger….and to show that He was serious, He chose His Son, Yahushua. Yahushua is called the WORD of God…the LOGOS….because He is just that. The WORD. If I send you a word through someone…then what is the role of that person? They are a messenger, carrying a message. Jesus said He ONLY speaks what the Father gave Him to speak. Therefore Jesus was that messenger, that WORD sent to TELL US what God wanted to tell us. And all that Jesus taught was to amplify the importance, nay, the NECESSITY of following the commandments of God….observing the Torah. NOT the “Oral Law” that Yahushua condemned, but the Torah of Yah. Not following it to the tee….but “observing” it. Yah wants His children to KNOW Him…and even moreso, to WANT to know Him.
Instead they want to know Paul and the Wide Gate. Consider your articles and blogs. I went through them….and the large majority of the Scriptures you use are Paul.
Do you not see that as a problem?
Study to show yourself approved. Stop expecting others to do it for you. Even when I go through these books and authors, I compare..I study…I use lexicons and common sense and determine accuracy. I don’t just take their word for it anymore than I take the word of the “church”..
This is the author of Jesus’ Words Only. If you read my book, you unfortunately skimmed over the preface which led you to wrongly interpret that I have a Reform and Baptist perception that we cannot fall from Grace. To the contrary, it was because I realized the error of the Reformed and Baptist positions on those issues in light of Jesus’ words in many places, e.g., Mark 9:42-47, that I rejected these Reformed / Baptist doctrine. But in the Preface I explain that then I had to deal with the fact that Paul gives contradictory lessons that do affirm eternal security and unalterable perservance. (You are right that Paul speaks of falling from grace, but (a) that proves a contradiction with his Eternal Security verses; or (b) is explained away by his Reformed / Baptist admirers.)
So I agree with you that ES / Perseverance doctrine is wrong-but I do so because it contradicts Jesus. Which led me to ask the question: did Jesus ever call Paul an apostle, and thus we are bound to follow Paul who I could no refute says salvation is without works in Romans 4:3-5? And we shall be saved if we ever once (aorist tense) call on the name of the Lord and believe Jesus resurrected? (Romans 10:9.) The answer is no, Jesus never called Paul an apostle. In the 3 accounts of Paul’s encounter with the light-and-voice (Acts 9, 22, and 26) that said “I am Jesus,” the light-and-voice said Paul would be a MARTUS — Greek for witness. Not “apostolos” – which means messenger. And Jesus did not make James an apostle either, as you contend. Rather, that was Paul misunderstanding that James was an apostle; James was not. (In Galatians 2.) Jesus said there was only 12 apostles — Rev. 21 — into eternity who sit as the 12 judges over the 12 tribes. So the idea of adding a 13th (after the 11 unanimously chose Matthias to replace Judas in Acts ch. 1) is contradictory of JESUS.
Thus, in fact, as the preface to Jesus Words Only points out, my problems with Reformed theology / Baptist eternal security, etc., are what led me to question Paul’s authority. So you have completely misunderstand where I am coming from and why. Please read the preface — free at http://www.jesuswordsonly.com — and look at “books” tab.
And my position on Paul is consistent with (a) the early reformation — Carlstadt (see my site) – who co-led the Reformation with Luther in 1517 — who wrote in 1520 that Jesus has priority over Paul in formulating doctrine. (Luther disagreed and kicked out his partner); (b) the early church prior to 300 — Tertullian’s work of 207 AD Against Marcion saying Paul’s claim to being an apostle is self-serving and dubious; and (c) most importantly, by Jesus.
Let’s look at what Jesus clearly says about Paul for those who have ears to hear. I found this only recently so you will have to read my website to find it. In Matt 5:17-19 Jesus says those in the kingdom of heaven will call the one who loosens the Law and teaches others not to follow the Law the “Least Man” — elicithos anthropous. (Those who teach to the contrary, Jesus calls the greatest in the kingdom.) Did you know Paul’s name — transliterated into Greek as Paulos from the Latin Paulus — is a shortened version (like Joe is for Joseph) of the name Pauxilus. And Paul’s true name of Pauxilus in Latin means, per Jamison Faucett, Augustine and other scholars cited at the page following — “LEAST.” Yes, that means Jesus warns us about Paul, saying for eternity the one who teaches to loosen the Law and tells us not to obey it will be called by those in heaven “THE LEAST MAN.” It was a prophecy. And in context of 5:17-20, it is a condemnation, not a praise.
So I ask: will we follow Jesus or Paul? Their messages are not only not the same, but they also oppose each other. Paul does so mostly in a self-contradictory way so you can find some things that agree with your anti-ES / Perseverance doctrine and in agreement with Jesus, but if you are being honest, there are a host of contrary verses that support ES / Perseverance.
So I did not come to this position because held Reformed or Baptist views, as you contend. Rather, I had to give those views up to follow Jesus, and face condemnation and attacks (I am sure they are meant in love by well-meaning brothers and sisters). I like most Christians of the dominant Pauline persuasion loved the easy way, the no-works gospel with no damnation for sin! Who would not wish that was the true Gospel? But alas, Jesus says you go to heaven “maimed” or hell “whole.” (Mark 9:42-47.) There is no other ‘way’ but Jesus’ way. Paul offers a dangerous alternative that comes up by different path — a non-apostolic path. Hence, we each have a decision — whether we will be loyal to Jesus’ or Paul’s gospel. I choose Jesus, and I hope you will do so too. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Modern Christianity has turned that into a trite saying but it contains an important direction from our Lord. So here below is the link to the “Least Man” discussion. God bless. D
http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/JWO/jesus-on-paul-the-least.html
Awesome! I started with your book and moved on to others, such as the books at http://www.yadayahweh.com …and I cannot believe the levels that keep revealing themselves! It’s one thing after the next…proof after proof…hidden within the original translations of text. The modern translations are so far off, even if not intentionally(which I doubt)….they are altered enough to hide the many meanings and perspectives that PROVE without a shadow of doubt that Paul was deceived, and consequently deceived from then on out. Paul did not know Yahweh, so how could he possibly have fought off the lies of Satan on that day on the road to Damascus? (if that even occurred at all)
I’ve only recently been clearly shown the truth in Matthew 13, that the enemy and the wicked seeds are christianity…Paul…Satan…etc. The Wide gate….wow.
So thank you for yet another revelation!
If you haven’t, check out yadayahweh.com…it takes everything you showed me to a deeper level, breaking down the very words used in the original texts, and analyzes every detail…Truly telling.
Yah Bless!
Matthew 5:17-19, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one little shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Luke 16:16-17, “The law and the prophets were until John (the Baptist): since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one little of the law to fail.”
Matthew 7:21, “Not every one . . . shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
How many words of Yahushua does it take to prove a truth? Should we twist these words to justify Paul? Should we say that these words were for a certain people at a certain time and do not apply to us now? Should we believe that between Jesus’ death and Paul’s letters that He changed His mind and decided that belief in Him was enough? Is it OK to put down the Law or speak negatively of it even though Yahushua held it at the highest regard possible?
My witness is Yahweh Himself in the Word He gave and the Word He sent…the 12 Apostles…and many more. I said that already.
“Will you build your faith when you can’t know Him or His words outside the only primary sources found in the New Testament?”
I’m sorry but I have to say something to this.
Are you serious here? You don’t even realize what you’re saying! The ONLY reason that the Father had to go as far as to send His SON was that mankind just didn’t get it. They just wouldn’t listen. He sent Yahushua out of LOVE, as HIS VOICE. Yahushua said that He only says what the Father gives Him to say…and He spoke perpetually of gaining eternal life through OBEDIENCE.
Obedience to what? The Laws and Commandments of the father.
So you mean to tell me…that the WORD of the Father, who only “reiterated” what the Father had said…things that did NOT change(Yahushua quoted the Torah and Prophets all the time..)…that you cannot “know Him” outside of what you call the “New Testament”?
Wow. Your religion has blinded you. I cannot believe that for so long I thought the way that you do. You claim to love God and Jesus but you short-change both of them. If you believe you need Paul to know how to be saved, then that should be a clue to you that something is not quite right…and let me tell you, once the Father removes that veil…hold on to your seat…because it all comes crashing down in rubble…and there is…no…going…back…
If what you are saying is true, then I would be believing it, but you haven’t even given one premise for your convictions. By the way, read Matthew 5 and you know that Jesus said more than the Torah.
I don’t need Paul as a man, but I do need Christ’s Spirit. Jesus said to His Apostles in John 16:12-13, “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.” There’s the Truth. Jesus had more to say then what He said in the Gospels. Christ’s Spirit came upon those Apostles and was given to those who they laid their hands on (Acts 8:14ff). Now, who knows which gospels you accept and what scriptures you believe? For you have only affirmed Matthew and you don’t accept all the words witnessed of Christ. You don’t give reason why. How can you believe anything about Jesus without the words of those eyewitnesses who have delivered the gospel to us? Your demanding that I believe what you believe because you say it and you do not refer to words of Jesus Christ.
Listen to Jesus who proved Himself by more than two witnesses in John 5. Jesus understood that God the Father is right that the truth affirmed by the witnesses of 2 or three. Jesus said in John 8:17, “It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.” You claim Jesus and yet you don’t even know His words. You don’t refer to them.
Where are your witnesses? If God bears witness of Christ by more than two and Jesus bears witness more than two, then you can certainly provide two or three witnesses if you are telling the Truth. Otherwise, you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
There are a couple of things I need to set straight here.
1st, for the most part I do utilize all four Gospels, James, Jude, Revelation…etc. No doubt there has been some Pauline influence in translations in various books, but overall I take everything on a case by case basis, comparing to the whole of Scripture – that being the Torah, Psalms and the Prophets, as well as the gospels.
Second, the Apostles did NOT concur with Paul. In that you are lacking knowledge – which stems from improper translations….but even in those Acts clearly states that the Apostles feared Paul. Yahushua Himself blessed the church at Ephesus for testing those who called themselves “apostles” but were not…and interestingly enough, Paul was the only one we know for sure who called himself such to Ephesus…AND admitted himself that all those in Asia (where Ephesus is located) turned away from him. The ONLY ground – which is none – that you have to stand on as far as apostles go is 2 Peter…which is poorly translated, and completely taken out of context with the rest of the Chapter.
3rd – Yes, Yahushua knew more than what could fit in enough books to fill this planet…what’s your point? EVERYthing He knows will gel with EVERYThing else. He is not going to completely change His message to the opposite of what He already taught since the beginning of time. Furthermore, Paul is CERTAINLY not the Holy Spirit…quite the opposite…
4th – You keep talking of two or more witnesses, and yet you trust a man who had NO witnesses other than himself with your very salvation!!
And Lastly, I do not need Paul to believe the words of Yahushua, and that is probably the most bizarre thing you have said…and Paul is NO eyewitness!!
And as for me not referring to the words of Yahushua….Do you really need me to post verses in which He speaks of obedience and the Law? Because you can do that yourself….within just a few verses…
PS…(my apologies for the ps’s…)
I assume you say that Peter accepted Paul based on 2 Peter 3:15..
I say again…the translations have MAJOR errors. This is not “secret” information, nor is it information that Satan has concocted to deceive the saints. It is clear and available for anyone who desires to research it.
2 Peter 3:15 does not say what you think it says…And furthermore Luke was not immune to being misled by Paul…nor were any of the apostles at any given time. Yahushua told them in Matthew 25 that even the very elect could be deceived by the lie that was to come upon the earth…and a more accurate translation shows that the verse doesn’t specify someone saying literally, “I” am Jesus…but rather that someone will be “of Him”…or in our modern language – ‘be sent from Him’…
Christians believe that passage to be specific to the Last Days when the Antichrist will ‘arrive’ on the scene…never stopping to consider that it may have started…the seed planted…long ago. In Matthew 13 Yahushua tells of the enemy sneaking in and planting seeds…
Those seeds have spread and grown…And we approach Harvest time.
But christians will keep looking for that obvious evil guy with the sign that says “I’m a false prophet” while they go on in error. Noone wants to believe that they bought the lie.
Well I did. And now I can only tell my former brethren the truth…and for the first time I truly know what it means to follow the Messiah…
“He did teach that the Law could not save and that thus it is the ministry of death engraved on stones.”
But that is the opposite of what Yahweh teaches us, both in the Law and the prophets as well as through His Son. Plain and simple.
Here is the bottom line. There are three types of responses that I receive when discussing this with “christians”. 1st, is the person who just doesn’t care either way. They are content to believe what is easiest for them. 2nd is the person who loves Yahushua so much, that ANY threat to Him or the Truth is a reason for their ears to perk. They openly accept truth as witnessed by the Holy Spirit, and they seek further confirmation that what I am saying is true…because the TRUTH will stand regardless. I have not had one person come back and say that I am wrong who has earnestly and sincerely sought truth. And 3rd is your type. They are so embedded with Pauline doctrine that it doesn’t matter what anyone says. The Father could send a prophet directly to this person, and they will deny truth because they are SO afraid of any confrontation to what they hold as “truth”, that they do everything they can to reason in their own minds and justify contradictions and errors that are all too obvious.
The third type of person never bothers to check the information. They believe that their faith is all they need, and give no heed whatsoever to the brain that the Father gave them. For this person there is no logic. There is no reason. They believe God is mysterious and unknowable, when in fact the entire “Old Testament” is affirmation of who Yahweh is.
You reiterate what was told to you again and again. I know this because I have not heard ONE SINGLE thing that is new, relevant, or revealing….including your email. Having grown up in the “church”, I’ve not only heard it all, but I’ve said it all myself in the 3 years that it took for me to open my heart to what the Father was trying to show me.
Back to your quote above….Yahweh set the Law in place as LIFE…and to say that it does not save is a lie from Satan. It is the ONLY thing that saves. Yahushua Himself taught this.
Have you never wondered why Paul never quoted Jesus? Why the apostles “feared” him as stated in Acts? Why there are multiple accounts of Paul’s supposed conversion story? Why Jesus said that He would return at a later time and all the world will see Him, yet according to Paul He actually came back early just to teach Paul a bunch of things that He Himself did not teach? Why Yahweh would need to send someone else to complete the job that Jesus obviously did not finish? Why Paul, the most IMPORTANT person in Christendom was not even given honorable mention in Revelation – which lays out the last of the last days???
So how can you so boldly deny what the Father is trying to show you, when you haven’t even taken the time to review the information? I have a standing challenge to ANY “christian” to go and read Jesus Words Only, OR go to yadayahweh.com and read the book there. Both attain the same goal. The book at yadayahweh though breaks down the letters of Paul in detail, word by word, comparing the original text to most of the popular translations. It shows how, not only is Paul completely off-base, but the translations actually make it worse!
But you won’t read the info…because christians think they know all of the answers. They have settled with the book that the politically-driven and religious comprised, forming the very WIDE gate that leads to destruction that the Messiah prophecied of.
I beckon you to seek truth and truth alone, at ANY cost… That is what I had to do for Yah to be able to break down the barrier that the church had built around me.
The Torah is LIFE…and neither Yah nor Yahushua could have made this any more clear..
All you have done is addressed me with prejudice. You charged me without witness of believing in faith only salvation. “The third type of person never bothers to check the information…So how can you so boldly deny what the Father is trying to show you, when you haven’t even taken the time to review the information?” You haven’t presented one part of your “information”. You haven’t addressed, which scriptures that you accept. You undermine of the witnesses of the Apostles and the words of Jesus Christ verified by them.
Everything that you have said is invented. This is speculation and conjecture in blatant contrast to the words of Jesus Christ as presented in the article above. You must present your charges against Paul by two or three witnesses otherwise you are bearing false witness. I don’t need to read ramblings in a book to hear your two or three strongest witnesses.
Nothing I’ve said is invented. It is a result of comparing literal translations of the original (or as old as we have) texts, and simply seeing the discrepancies. It is a result of taking what Jesus said, and comparing it to what Paul said.
Again, you don’t need either of those books to do this. They simply provide a pre-completed version of what each individual should do on their own.
I undermine Paul, yes…but NOT the Apostles or the Messiah. Not one of them ever spoke even remotely negatively about the Torah. Not once. Everything Paul said is the opposite of what Jesus said, and that is SO clear once you realize that you must test EVERYONE against the Scriptures. What are the Scriptures? The Law and the Prophets. What Yahweh set in place, NO MAN has the right to change…which is exactly what Paul did.
Quite frankly the information in the books is too vast for me to start picking and choosing what small parts to present you with. The most blatant and damning of evidence is the most clear…that is that Paul considered the Law a curse. The same Law that Yahweh set in place. The same Law that Yahushua said would NOT pass away until the very end. You claim to love and follow the Messiah, yet you ignore His words. You read His words in the light of Paul’s…and it MUST be the other way around.
Further…NOT ONE WORD of what I’ve said contrasts anything that Jesus said. One CANNOT have the Holy Spirit unless they follow and obey what Jesus and the Father commanded…otherwise you may be an “elect” that has been “deceived”. Jesus gave so many warnings regarding EXACTLY what happened with Paul….and yet most “christians” quote Paul with regard to salvation than they do the Saviour.
Lastly, you speak of 2-3 witnesses…and you are right in doing so. On my side, I have the 12 true Apostles, the prophets, Yahushua, the early followers of the Way, many, many people who are waking up in these days….AND Yahweh Himself.
Paul on the other hand, was his own witness. HE told Luke about Ananias, therefore he has but ONE witness – HIMSELF. That right there should tell you something…
Again..you cannot refute information that you refuse to read. God CANNOT teach “Christians” anything….because they already know everything. Such is pride, and such is the downfall of Satan – thus the downfall of his followers…even when they are unaware of what they are doing.
My prejudice is not against you my friend…I am merely telling you the truth – but it’s a bitter pill to swallow. I tell you out of love…because though this revelation has completely obliterated my former self…I cannot sit by and watch the billions being deceived without at least trying to be a witness to truth.
You can make all the excuses in the world to not study the information presented…but the reality is that it is you who are missing what the Father is trying to tell you.
“….my people suffer for a lack of knowledge…:
Boy do they ever…
Keep looking for that obvious deceiver…unfortunately for you the deceiver has been here all along…
By the way…”salvation by faith alone” is FAR from Paul’s only problem. I do realize that not all christians subscribe to that belief…but saying that the Law is beneficial is a FAR cry from the truth. It’s more than beneficial….IT IS LIFE.
So are the words of your Creator, and so are the words of His Son.
You know that Paul did not say that the Law was a curse. Why do you misrepresent Paul if he is wrong? Paul referred to Deuteronomy 27:26 saying that those who does not all of the Law is cursed.
Paul presented outside witnesses of himself including all the churches (2 Cor. 13:1). Besides Luke, there is Timothy, Titus, Silas (Silvanus), Tertius, and the witnesses of Christ for Luke’s gospel (Luke 1:1-3). Of the Apostles, there is Peter and all the Apostles who were with Peter (2 Pet. 3:15-16, 2 Pet. 1:16-19, Gal. 1). God bore witness through Him by miracles (Gal. 3:1-5, 2 Tim. 1:6, Acts 14:3, 19:1-6). “Truly the signs of an apostle were accomplished among you with all perseverance, in signs and wonders and mighty deeds” (2 Cor. 12:12). Yet, you have no witnesses against him. You have not one Apostle.
I won’t post the many, many verses from Paul on his view of the Law. That should be clear to you no matter what you believe.
I will however say that Luke is not a witness for Paul…he is a recorder. He did not give a personal opinion on Paul. That said, I will also reiterate that Yahushua said that the disciples would be deceived if they were not careful, so even if Luke did speak highly of Paul, it would prove nothing.
Peter- I’ve stated more than once that this is an error in translation and a verse taken out of context. Look into it….it’s worth your soul.
All others are based on Paul’s testimony alone. That is circular logic and has no ground.
Also…both Yahweh AND Yahushua warned of false prophets who do signs and wonders…so that is just another nail in his coffin…
Ya know, it would be so much more beneficial for you to go and study one of these books. If for no other reason than to know your enemy…because the arguments that you are merely reiterating have never held water – and they aren’t going to start..
PS…You said “Because I feel so strongly toward Christ and His words…”
THAT, my friend, is a lie that you have told yourself…
The main points of this article are absurd. Yahushua and Saul taught two different things. Yahushua taught the Torah as LIFE, as NOT being satisfied or ending until our Father comes and resides with us, IF even then. Saul put the Torah down, put the disciples down, and gave us “salvation through faith alone”. You cannot teach the OPPOSITE of what the Messiah teaches and claim to speak for the Father. You are blinded by a delusion 2000 years in the making – but you better wake up.
One last thing…you CANNOT POSSIBLY read ‘Jesus Words Only’ and still come out thinking like you do now. The Father never replaced logic and thought with blind faith. He gave us everything we need to know Him in the Torah and the prophets…and reiterated that message through the Living Word, Yahushua…and gave Him as a universal sacrifice to meet the terms of repentance in the Torah. You are too busy defending Paul to use your brain. Forget Paul. Defend the Messiah whom you claim to love. How can you love Him when you clearly do not even know what He teaches? I grew up in a non-denom church, so I’m not speaking without experience. I followed Paul for over 30 years. And that’s the problem…I followed PAUL. And so do you.
You don’t need a book to see the truth. Just start reading Paul’s letters, and on EVERY topic, ask yourself “what did Jesus say about this?”…then turn to the gospels and find out.
It’s time to wake up.
Friend, you are mistaken and I plead with you to reconsider. Consider that your upbringing in this non-denominational church, which evidently taught you that Paul taught “salvation through faith alone”. That’s not Paul’s quote. Paul never taught this. I am convinced that Paul taught by Christ’s Spirit obedience to faith referring to “obedience to the faith among all nations for His name, among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ” (Rom. 1:30), “glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For there is no partiality with God” (Rom. 2:10-11), “you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered” (Rom. 6:17), and “according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith” (Rom. 16:26). No we do not earn salvation, but we must be obedient to be saved. How else could Paul say these words teach that one must die to their sins and be immersed into Christ’s death to be raised with Him (Rom. 6:1-7)? Will you at least reread the words of Paul and see that your previous learning of Paul teaching “faith alone” is false?
My words are certainly absurd to you because you have not heard them. Consider that these words must be tested to be the words of Jesus Christ through His Spirit. Paul taught Christians to be admonished by the examples of these scriptures, the Law and the Prophets (Rom. 15:4, 1 Cor. 10:6, 11). He did teach that the Law could not save and that thus it is the ministry of death engraved on stones. Note that Jesus taught more than the Law in Matthew 5 and in doing this fulfilled the Law.
Lastly, your position appears absurd to me. Since Peter accepted Paul (2 Pet. 3:16), Paul accepted Luke’s Gospel (1 Tim. 5:18, Luke 10:7), Peter accepted John (2 Pet. 1:16-19), and John accepted the writings of the Apostles (1 John 1:1-4), how can you accept the Gospel of Luke, Acts, the Gospel of Mark, the Gospel of John, or any of John’s writings? You’re left with Matthew by whom Luke recognized (Luke 1:1-3) and John would have to accept as one of the Apostles (1 John 1:1-4). Yet, Matthew’s Gospel does not contract Mark, Luke, or John. What words of Christ do you have now? Reconsider yourself. You cannot reject Paul. What did Paul say that contradicted Christ? I hope that you see that you mistaken, see the huge holes in your assumptions, and how you are compromising Jesus words concerning the coming of the Spirit to guide His Apostles (John 16:13).
May God bless us both to diligently and honestly pursue the Truth in the words of Christ.
Interesting Post. I’d be interested to hear your position after reading “Jesus Words Only” by DelTando. I’m just exploring this topic as I’ve always felt that Paul contradicted Jesus in many ways. DelTando finally put it in writing for me.
Calling Paul an “Apostle” seems to be the first error. Jesus selected 12 Apostles and didn’t need a 13th. Else we basically say that Jesus had an oversight in his plan. Plus, don’t you think it would have been nice for Paul to actually learn directly from Jesus by experiencing him rather than seeing a light, hearing a voice (of Jesus?) and then running off for years to ‘catch up on what the Apostles already knew’?
I’m no one – I admit. But if you are open to a very compelling challenge, read Del Tando’s book. If you always have the need to ‘be right’, like every pastor I’ve ever known, don’t read the book as there would be no benefit…
I’m not a pastor and I really don’t most of the people who claim to be pastors are either. Yes, I live by my convictions and I want my convictions to be in Christ by this I seek to be right with Him, so I approach everything with honesty and diligence in search of Jesus.
Paul is an Apostle either way whether of Christ or of the Church. He was sent. Jesus’ brother James also became an apostle in the early church.
I don’t really know what you can know about Christ or what witness verified books in the New Testament that you accept or not. Yet, only 27 books came from the 1st c. among the Apostles. I guess these words for consideration have passed you by.
I’ll check into DelTando’s book. Yet, I expect the get the usually speculation contrary to the witnesses of the New Testament, which affirms prejudice.
Thanks for commenting and take care.
Because I feel so strongly toward Christ and His words, I must approach this sharply now rather than with gentleness toward a child. Del Tondo’s book, Jesus Words Only, is only speculation. From a quick review of his common opinions, He works against a strawman version of the Apostle Paul. His Calvinist and Baptist foundation has blurred his concept of Paul and what He taught. Del Tondo sees Paul through the lenses of Reformed theology for the perseverance of the saints as though man cannot fall from grace and yet Paul said, “you have fallen from grace” (Gal. 5:4). Honesty and truth refute this.
Del Tondo just used Jesus’ words from the Apostle who accepted Paul. I wonder if he uses Luke’s Gospel, Mark from Peter who accepted Paul, or John’s which Peter also accepted. Anyone who reads the beginning and ending of Paul to the Romans reads “obedience to the faith”. Add
“Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.” (Rom. 6:16-18).
When we honestly consider Paul’s words, which he claims are from Christ, we find Paul against the idea that everyone is predestined individually and rather they are predestined when they are choose to be God’s people, “[God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4). God’s people are predestined but their election is made sure faithful obedience. Paul’s own words contradict Reformed theology falsely assigned to His name.
As for the false Apostles, Paul addressed them in 2 Corinthians. People love to eat up conjecture like this. Like I said, if you believe this, then you can’t trust one writing in the New Testament especially Christ’s words as presented in the Gospels and you might as well keep moving to agnosticism if you so choose to rely on speculation. Del Tondo would be wise to turn to the legal maxim that truth is verified by two or more primary sources. The Scriptures have this from beginning to completion.
On top of all of this, Del Tondo has also bought into the lie that the Scriptures were put together by men outside of the oversight of Christ’s Apostles, and this very clearly false to anyone who had read the New Testament. This is the underlying error and common false teaching leading many intelligent people like Del Tondo into such foolishness.
As for a more detailed read of Del Tondo’s work, then I’ll have to get a free copy, because I’m going to put any money in support of these common assertions.
First of all, there’s no possible way you could have read “Jesus’ Words Only” in it’s entirety in just under two hours, so I doubt you fully understood what Del Tondo was stating. He comes at this subject with a discerning perspective, from a legal standpoint, which is best for uncovering evidence.
In addition, Scott Nelson approaches the same subject but with more explanation and does a very thorough job of presenting paul as false. However, it doesn’t take someone else to read plainly what scripture states… the Jesus-chosen apostles did not fully accept paul, a stipulation for even being an apostle was to have spent time with Jesus himself, paul boasts and in several cases contradicts Jesus, and Jude warns of false prophets who come in their own name… how does paul begin almost every book/letter? “I PAUL…” Paul is responsible for Christianity in every form today. Jesus was a Hebrew Jew who never changed His Father’s laws. Look at Christianity today. Every well known author SELLS their books/cd’s/dvd’s at a profit. Jesus says there will MANY whom He will reject, and they will say “Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name?” And He will say “Get away from Me; I never knew you.” The ONLY people on the planet He could be speaking of are those who call themselves “Christians” because no other “people” would refer to Jesus Christ/Yahushuah HaMassiach as “Lord.” Christianity is Paulianity and he is a false prophet. However, a false prophet cannot stand with lies alone. He must sell his lies with truth mixed in. His 7 churches completely annihilated the 7 TRUE churches that Jesus built and we all suffer the consequences today. However, Father YHWH, The Most High God, allowed this imposter to test His own.
Again, this is conjecture. No proof. No premise. No primary sources. You can’t have any of the words of Christ as found in the Gospels because of their association with Paul and all Christ’s Apostles. All you have is the shadow of a man in history. Will you build your faith when you can’t know Him or His words outside the only primary sources found in the New Testament?
Hate to comment on a zombie thread but was just recently reading through your page, Scott. I wanted to add a humourous but, nonetheless, genuine critique of your reasoning when you said: “You can’t have any of the words of Christ as found in the Gospels because of their association with Paul and all Christ’s Apostles.”
Yet, Paul actually was critical of Peter on occasion. So if Peter was indeed wrong and Paul was correct in his rebuke, then this shows that Peter’s view of things is not necessarily always authoritative or correct and thus his recommendation of Paul could be equally mistaken. Then again, I have read that 2 Peter is not entirely agreed upon to have been written by the actual Peter anyhow. Even if you do believe Peter said it, he also said Paul’s writings are hard to understand.
Just wanted to add something light hearted but thought provoking.
Matthew,
Thank you for digging into the comments. That is why these remain posted. :-)
Your conclusion that, “Peter’s view of things is not necessarily always authoritative or correct and thus his recommendation of Paul could be equally mistaken.” Yes, I agree. These were imperfect men, and yet they are witnesses of Christ. Christ did tell Peter, John, and the rest of the Apostles that they would remember all things and be guided into all Truth (John 14:26, 16:12-13). This is a fundamental teaching to the whole of Christ’s words. I hope that you agree that we must start with Christ. Consider what Jesus said about the Apostles receiving all Truth by His Spirit, this is clearly the extent of the Apostles’ infallibility as much as they were instructed by the Spirit. Thus, they accepted Paul as an apostle, and Paul still accepted them despite their imperfection. Paul never questioned Peter’s apostolic teaching or witness of Christ even in the Gospel of Mark, and Peter likewise never excluded the writings of Paul as Paul said that his words were from the Spirit and that he wrote the commands of God (1 Cor. 2:13, 14:37). Yet, Peter clearly recognized Paul’s writings as “scripture” (2 Peter. 3:15-16).
The conclusion that 2 Peter was not written by Peter is in kind way, “presumptuous”. It really is conjecture and speculation coming from the most esteemed scholars down. The internal teachings of 2 Peter display no motive or angel to reinterpret any Christian doctrine or practice. Also before the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, Clement of Rome wrote specifically referring to Peter’s writing of 2 Peter as “scripture”. You cannot get anymore authoritative than that. See, when we favor presumptuous ideas like Peter not writing 2 Peter, we stand on the cliff of prejudice and even bigotry. Both internal and external witnesses support 2 Peter. It is not until the 4th century that Eusebius reports that some believers doubted 2 Peter while not rejecting it. That alone implies that much more has taken place in dialogue and doubt through the early centuries than we know.
I hope you will honestly consider these points. Consider also the article, “Did Peter Not Write 2 Peter?” This discussion really does hinge on 2 Peter. Thanks for the comment.
Sir,
If you have no problem with Jesus’ words, then you will readily accept that He selected the original twelve apostles. It also means that you readily accept that He would send His Holy Spirit to guide these apostles of His into all truth. It also means that you must (or should) accept Peter and the rest of the apostles acceptance and recognizance of Paul as an apostle of Christ also.
Your thoughts are not new at all. There have always been those who rejected God’s leaders. See Moses and trouble with Korah. Jesus in HIS own words warned His people that when people rejected the words they spoke concerning Christ and His church, that they were in reality rejecting Jesus Himself.
Oh…., I, on purpose, left out the scriptural references in my post. You challenged for the reading of an uninspired man’s book (Del Tando). Your post seem’s to indicate that you have not read enough from the inspired Book.
One of Jesus’ apostles also wrote, (I hope you’re comfortable with Matthew) “seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness”. Maybe that is where preachers of truth get the notion that it is a good thing to want to be right. Just sayin’.
Amen.
If you believed the words of Yahushua then you would know that Paul spewed lies…